Natural medicine - Child dies of meningitis

Status
Not open for further replies.

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
51,371
Location
Ontario, Canada
Are the parents at fault? That's the subject of a legal battle that has begun in Canada. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/st...death-1.3537887
Originally Posted By: CBC
Audio recordings obtained by CBC News of police interviews with two Alberta parents accused of allowing their toddler to die from meningitis reveal how strongly the couple believed in the power of natural remedies over conventional medicine, even after the boy was flown to a Calgary hospital in grave condition. David Stephan, 32, and his wife, Collet Stephan, 36, are accused of failing to provide the necessaries of life for their nearly 19-month-old son Ezekiel, who died in March 2012. The charges were laid almost a year later. Just after 1 a.m. on March 15, 2012, as the toddler lay unconscious at the Alberta Children's Hospital in Calgary, RCMP Cpl. Ryan Bulford conducted separate lengthy interviews with the Stephans, asking both to describe in detail the events leading up to that point. A jury is now deliberating after a six-week trial in Lethbridge, Alta., about 210 kilometres southeast of Calgary. With that eight-woman, four-man jury sequestered, CBC News is now allowed to publish the audio of those interviews, which were exhibits at the trial. Asked by the officer whether he considered himself an expert in naturopathic remedies, Stephan said no. "Do we have a formal education? No. Are we educated in it? Absolutely," he said. "Has it worked for us in every single scenario in the past before this? Yes." Ezekiel was regularly given vitamin and mineral supplements, said his father, who is a vice-president of Truehope Nutritional Support Inc., a natural remedies company founded by his father, Anthony Stephan. "And then when he was sick there, we were giving him, above and beyond that, the olive root extract, which is an antifungal, antiviral, it's a very powerful one," he told Bulford. The toddler's mother told the officer that Ezekiel, who had been unwell for about 2½ weeks with what she thought was croup, became more lethargic on Sunday, March 11. The next day she invited Terrie Meynders, who had been her birth attendant — and who is a registered nurse — to the acreage in Cardston County, in the southwestern corner of Alberta, where the Stephans lived with Ezekiel and their other son Ezra, who was four. Collet Stephan was also 20 weeks pregnant with their third child at the time. "To her experience, she said he does look like he's showing signs of meningitis," she told Bulford. In her testimony on March 8, Meynders said she told Ezekiel's mother she should consult a physician. Meningitis is an inflammation of the membranes surrounding the brain and spinal cord, and can be caused by a fungus, a virus, or by bacteria, which is the more dangerous variety of the disease. *snip*
Please visit the link for the full article.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
1,700
Location
'murica
Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. Your right to believe stupid [censored] ends when you KILL A KID.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2016
Messages
138
Location
Recalculating, USA
Originally Posted By: Kawiguy454
It is a slippery slope if it is found that the state owns your life to the point they can trash your beliefs.
You live in a country that's rolling down that slope pretty fast.
 
Joined
May 9, 2014
Messages
2,161
Location
Minnesota
slippery slope arguemnet is lame at best. That argument can be used for most anything and yet a kid just died from stupidity.
 

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
51,371
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: Kawiguy454
It is a slippery slope if it is found that the state owns your life to the point they can trash your beliefs.
It isn't about the state owning your life but rather your duty as a parent to provide the necessities of life for your child. That's what's on trial here, that the parents did not seek medical attention for the child but instead chose to home medicate with "natural remedies" which ultimately resulted in the child's death. On top of that, due to the parent's views, the child was not vaccinated against the disease in the first place, which was why it was contracted.
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
6,170
Location
North Coast
I have used olive leaf extract and apple cider vinegar to cure myself of severe fungal histoplasmosis but he must have a bacterial version of meningitis which that remedy would not work. He should have been attended to by an Md where they could have simply given him some IV antibiotics and cured his illness. Stupid.
 
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
1,700
Location
'murica
It's only in 1st-world countries that ill-informed yuppies get these ideas about vaccines being bad because, through herd immunity, they've never even seen the diseases. In remote parts of the world where these diseases haven't been eradicated, women will carry their children through jungles and across rivers for days to get a vaccine from an NGO.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
1,462
Location
East Mountains, NM
Originally Posted By: Doog
I have used olive leaf extract and apple cider vinegar to cure myself of severe fungal histoplasmosis but he must have a bacterial version of meningitis which that remedy would not work. He should have been attended to by an Md where they could have simply given him some IV antibiotics and cured his illness. Stupid.
Wow. Have you ever known anyone who had meningitis? Treating with any kind of "Homeopathic" means would be.....Very dangerous. I have had several family members that had meningitis. All were treated, with what was available at the time. A couple died. One (My brother) lived. The time from onset until they were in a coma was a few hours. No time for "Changing blood PH". Massive intervention, or a funeral. Those are your choices.
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
11,883
Location
PA
This is a really challenging area of moral and legal philosophy. It's one area where freedom of conscience really does seem to be in zero-sum with the lives of the innocent. I happen to think society is under no obligation to shelter any belief that explicitly rejects humanity's best attempts at understanding reality. So, to me, anyone who does what these parents did should be punished for essentially killing an innocent person. But I'm not in charge, nor should I or any single person be. This is a topic on which our society will simply have to evolve at its own pace, whatever the result may be.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
1,461
Location
CA
Seeing the toddler had been unwell for two and a half weeks with the parents incorrectly diagnosing him, there comes a point where an innocent needs to be protected from parental stupidity. How to do that is not an easy thing. But having to defend your actions in a court of law and suffering some consequences will become a good deterrent.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
1,462
Location
East Mountains, NM
Originally Posted By: CT8
Kids die from Vaccinations as well but that is just seems to be fine!
vs. how many are saved? Everything has an inherent risk. Folks that think vaccinations are dangerous were not alive when kids were in iron lungs from polio, or died from measles.......Or when the occasional adult got mumps, with nasty lasting effects.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Messages
53
Location
Texas
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: CT8
Kids die from Vaccinations as well but that is just seems to be fine!
vs. how many are saved? Everything has an inherent risk. Folks that think vaccinations are dangerous were not alive when kids were in iron lungs from polio, or died from measles.......Or when the occasional adult got mumps, with nasty lasting effects.
Yep. The number of actual vaccine injuries is incredibly tiny. But be prepared for a lot of misinformed anti-vaccination propaganda from the tinfoil crowd. We'll probably have a very long thread as a result. I met a guy with a mother that had religious objections to vaccines. He contracted polio. He has been confined to a wheelchair his entire life because of his mother's decision. Vaccination is a no-brainer as a public health policy. It says a lot when a country like Mexico has a higher vax rate than the United States.
 
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
1,462
Location
East Mountains, NM
Originally Posted By: Turbo_Lemming
Originally Posted By: Kawiguy454
It is a slippery slope if it is found that the state owns your life to the point they can trash your beliefs.
You live in a country that's rolling down that slope pretty fast.
I would agree, but from the opposite side. We do not have the right to choose dignity in our deaths, because most state governments withhold that right. If you allow one, (The right of parents to refuse treatment) maybe you have to allow the other (The right to die when you choose, with medical assistance.)
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
10,007
Location
Upstate NY
It's all well and good to try to cure what ails you for a week or so. If it's going on longer than 7 days, it's high time to consult a real doctor. The parents knowingly put their child in jeopardy due to their beliefs. They deserve judgment from the rest of us.
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
985
Location
England
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose. Your right to believe stupid [censored] ends when you KILL A KID.
VERY TRUE, I would charge them both with manslaughter! Similar issues, but in reverse for JW followers (I'm just a friend, as they do thump the good book a bit too much). A hate to think how many innocent people have been killed by hospitals using bad whole blood from AIDS, Hep C, very nasty worms and a bunch of other avoidable bacteria and viruses. A lot of folks subject to major surgery also die from the use of El-cheapo blood recycling machines. The pump can be cleaned (If they are not busy), BUT the filters can't, they are just drained and flushed with distilled water. That way you are almost guaranteed to get something less than desirable from the previous patient! It might just be a minor post Op infection, BUT if the previous person was in a real bad way and dying of blood poisoning, bad luck, as you will get it for sure, UNLESS the Johovas bible bashers turn up with your signed card and insist the hospital uses a new filter unit (Expensive part) in the blood recycler. Very, very few people involved in serious accidents need whole blood directly, as modern synthetic blood in combination with a blood recycler made in the US or the EU (Preferably Germany), is all you need assuming you are lucky. The exceptional cases involve loss of a limb with delayed first aid, very serious internal injuries or a burst aorta (Often fatal). Those poor folks will need whole blood fairly quickly after arrival in hospital, BUT it is far safer if a healthy family member or friend can donate the required blood. My life insurance is interesting (I enjoy getting shot at for a living), as I have to send 2 pints of my frozen blood to the nearest hospital to my base airport if it's some 3rd world place, or just donate my own upfront. So, if you crash or get shot, dial 911 and then do dial a friend for the blood bags if it's a bad one!
 
Last edited:

CT8

Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
15,369
Location
Idaho
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: CT8
Kids die from Vaccinations as well but that is just seems to be fine!
vs. how many are saved? Everything has an inherent risk. Folks that think vaccinations are dangerous were not alive when kids were in iron lungs from polio, or died from measles.......Or when the occasional adult got mumps, with nasty lasting effects.
It depends if it is your kid that has a problem with vaccination, I had the measels. It was a vacation from school 3rd grade, mumps in the 7th grade. chicken pocks in between. But then I didn't die coming off my motorcycle at 105 mph or spinning out in a semi truck. How do you know how many people are actually saved by vaccinations? I have had people tell mt they have the flu shot and never get sick and others tell me they get sick after the flu shot and people never get the flu or the shot. I trust doctors less than politicians.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top