NAPA synthetic - why so cheap?

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Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
I thought Virgin Oil Analysis (VOA) showed it was Not the same as Valvoline?
(shrug)...

It is similar, but not the same. Also the different weights vary with how close it is.
Easily a 7500 mile oil for most applications, maybe more depending on vehicle and driving conditions.

Ashland oils tend to have high sodium and low/no boron/moly compared to Mobil/Pennzoil/Castrol. Just a different way to protect, but it still works just fine. Some don't like the high sodium (which is a metal) and want moly (a metal) and/or boron (a weird metalloid, neither metallic nor non-metallic).

For a SN/Dexos synthetic oil that you can walk in and buy with no rebate or clearance (although it is on sale, it goes on sale frequently and for a long time) it is not a bad choice for most, and cheaper than most conventional oils.

I personally hoard when I find clearance oil, so I don't use it, but if I did need oil and it was on sale and no clearance or good rebate, I would have no issue using it.
 
All this talk about it, I think I'm going to go buy a case of 0W20 after work for my wife's car. I already bought a case of 5W30 for my truck a few weeks ago.
 
Originally Posted By: blupupher
and cheaper than most conventional oils.


Napa Synthetic probably is a conventional oil (Group 3)
 
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy


Napa Synthetic probably is a conventional oil (Group 3)



Then most every Syn is "conventional" then. Why beat a dead horse?
 
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Originally Posted By: blupupher
and cheaper than most conventional oils.


Napa Synthetic probably is a conventional oil (Group 3)


If you feel that way, then don't buy it, but have fun trying to find something you consider a "synthetic" for even 3x the price of the NAPA synthetic.
Nothing wrong with Grp 3 syn.
 
I am really stocking up on this great deal. I am buying 12 qts. a week from my local NAPA store. I did not want to wipe them out, out of courtesy to other customers. Rebranded SynPower is excellent oil!
 
Originally Posted By: SonofJoe
Do the best cleaning oils contain most calcium? No, not really...

The whole over-based metallic detergent/engine cleanliness thing is a bit misunderstood. Calcium, magnesium & sodium, be they in sulphonate, phenate, salicylate or calixerate form, are your major sources of TBN & ash in any oil (ZDDP does ash but not TBN).

Lots of oils these days are limited one way or another in terms of ash or TBN and if you just restrict one, you sort of by default restrict the other. Generally oils carry a TBN of between 7 & 10. Of this TBN, you generally need 5 for boring, old rust control. The next 5 (if allowed) you might need because the spec calls for it (like the 10 min TBN for A3/B4), or because its a cheap 'indirect' antioxidant (by virtue of its acid neutralisation capabilities) which is usually the case for PCMOs or you just want to max out on ash (as in CJ-4).

What you don't tend to do is use detergents for engine cleanliness. That's what ashless dispersants are for. If you look at DI additives, ashless dispersants are in percentage terms, way bigger than over based detergents (especially in HDDOs). It's also what high VI base oils are for in so far as they reduce the amount of deposit forming VII polymer in a given blend.



Originally Posted By: ShotGun429

Thank you fdcg27; I want and try to stay out of oil brand name wars, as stated above I do many tear downs here, not due to wear-outs, but other reasons, (overheated, wrecks,engine swaps with performance upgrades, etc.) over the past years (50 plus) i have noticed the high mile engines that seem very clean in every area, (i try to find out what oil the owner had been using) and the crankshaft mikes out at non detectable wear and can be reused at std-std,with minimal bore wear, have been on a oil with sodium add pack. This is not a made up post, its fact. Dont discount sodium as just a filler.


I've never heard of a Napa Oil based issue and we have a big Napa Shop here in town that supports lots of high end wineries that are owned by lawyers and other who could make life miserable if there were any sort of issue ... Nada.

I run Napa Syn when I need to grab a syn for some purpose that is not covered by what's in my stash ...
smile.gif
 
Here is NAPA Synthetic 5W30 VOA from PQIA. It's a few years old, and I think the most recent version should carry Dexos1 spec. (Just checked, yes the Napa Syn in 0W20, 5W20 & 5W30 is on the Dexos list.)
http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/napasyn.htm

It looks fine to me, decent TBN and NOACK volatility. The Zinc and KV100 are where they should be for a ILSAC 30 grade oil.

All modern PCMO oils carry a detergent in the add pack, it's usually an organometallic with either Ca, Mg or Na being the metal ion. Napa and SynPower use a Na & Ca mix, nothing wrong with that. I think Royal Purple use something similar, and they all have for years. It works fine. There is No corrosion issues.

Why cheap? I'm just guessing, but one guess is economy of scale. Given that Ashland / Valvoline is already set up to produce a synthetic oil, making more oil on the same production line, even if the bottle & add pack are a little different, just adds to the positive economics of the plant. Also oils like PP and M1 are the figurehead oils for ExxonMobil and SOPUS, so they use the very best base stock they can (some PAO for M1 and GTL for PP) and a premium add pack. I don't think Napa is trying to compete with this, rather a good quality everyday synthetic (Group 3) for real everyday cars and applications. To me it's SynPower that is going head to head with M1 and PP, not Napa syn.

We only get SynPower here, which I like a lot. But that Napa does look good to me, I wish we got that stuff too. I would expect a lot of flow on benefit from SynPower development to Napa production. Racing improves the breed, and all that.

Also note that the Napa Syn Oil MSDS comes from Valvoline
(Napa-Valvoline MSDS)
 
Originally Posted By: blupupher
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Originally Posted By: blupupher
and cheaper than most conventional oils.


Napa Synthetic probably is a conventional oil (Group 3)


If you feel that way, then don't buy it, but have fun trying to find something you consider a "synthetic" for even 3x the price of the NAPA synthetic.
Nothing wrong with Grp 3 syn.


blupupher, you are right.
thumbsup2.gif
 
Here's a copy and paste of the email Valvoline sent me:

Thank you for contacting Valvoline Product Support with your oil questions.

The NAPA Private Label Synthetic does carry a different formulation from our Valvoline SynPower. Though these formulation differences are not drastic, they are present. NAPA comes to Valvoline with a certain set of specifications that they want their oil to meet, and we formulate the oil per their request. These specifications however, are not as broad as the Valvoline standards, therefore the Valvoline will cover more applications.

If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us via phone at 800 TEAM VAL or by email at [email protected] for assistance.

Thank you and have a great day.
Max
Valvoline Product Support
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
Here is NAPA Synthetic 5W30 VOA from PQIA. It's a few years old, and I think the most recent version should carry Dexos1 spec. (Just checked, yes the Napa Syn in 0W20, 5W20 & 5W30 is on the Dexos list.)
http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/napasyn.htm

It looks fine to me, decent TBN and NOACK volatility. The Zinc and KV100 are where they should be for a ILSAC 30 grade oil.

All modern PCMO oils carry a detergent in the add pack, it's usually an organometallic with either Ca, Mg or Na being the metal ion. Napa and SynPower use a Na & Ca mix, nothing wrong with that. I think Royal Purple use something similar, and they all have for years. It works fine. There is No corrosion issues.

Why cheap? I'm just guessing, but one guess is economy of scale. Given that Ashland / Valvoline is already set up to produce a synthetic oil, making more oil on the same production line, even if the bottle & add pack are a little different, just adds to the positive economics of the plant. Also oils like PP and M1 are the figurehead oils for ExxonMobil and SOPUS, so they use the very best base stock they can (some PAO for M1 and GTL for PP) and a premium add pack. I don't think Napa is trying to compete with this, rather a good quality everyday synthetic (Group 3) for real everyday cars and applications. To me it's SynPower that is going head to head with M1 and PP, not Napa syn.

We only get SynPower here, which I like a lot. But that Napa does look good to me, I wish we got that stuff too. I would expect a lot of flow on benefit from SynPower development to Napa production. Racing improves the breed, and all that.

Also note that the Napa Syn Oil MSDS comes from Valvoline
(Napa-Valvoline MSDS)



SR5, thanks for the post.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Tony10s

SR5, thanks for the post.
smile.gif


No Worries Tony,
And keep using that good Napa Synthetic oil in your cars, I'm sure it will look after you fine.

I'm on Castrol Magnatec right now and it's looking after me fine, but due for a oil change soon, and I'm thinking I might go for some SynPower which I picked up at a good price.
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
Originally Posted By: Tony10s

SR5, thanks for the post.
smile.gif


No Worries Tony,
And keep using that good Napa Synthetic oil in your cars, I'm sure it will look after you fine.

I'm on Castrol Magnatec right now and it's looking after me fine, but due for a oil change soon, and I'm thinking I might go for some SynPower which I picked up at a good price.


I like Castrol too ... Castrol Magnatec is great oil, as well as Valvoline SynPower. You can't go wrong with either one of them.

Thanks for all your helpful posts man.
smile.gif
 
I will never use it again. The only time I used it, it was in a car that never used oil. I put in the NAPA Full Syn and in 4k miles it was 1 1/2 QT low.

Returned the rest of the case to NAPA for M1.
 
I run a shop and we use it exclusively because of the price. Never had an issue with it. We have returning customers that have used it for years...many going 6,000-8,000 between changes without any issues.

I've used it in my personal car several times, it tends to burn a little more than Mobil 1 - so I usually will use Mobil 1 whenever they have their rebate program going on - but I have no problem using the Napa synthetic at $2 a quart.

The best oil I've used in terms of minimal oil loss was TGMO, but at $8 dollars a quart it's not worth it to me.
 
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
Napa Synthetic probably is a conventional oil (Group 3)

Then most every Syn is "conventional" then. Why beat a dead horse?
But it's so much fun: :deadhorse: Drat. No deadhorse icon on this forum. In any case, I thought high-end synthetics were Group 4, but maybe not.....

I wish NAPA had a xW-40 weight oil for summer use.

Oh well. I bought the 20weight for winter use.
 
Originally Posted By: veryHeavy
In any case, I thought high-end synthetics were Group 4, but maybe not.....


Congrats on your opinion!

BTW, I just bought even more rebranded SynPower, LOL.
thumbsup2.gif
 
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