NAPA PROSELECT 27151, CUT OPEN TORN!!!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
1,807
Location
Houston, Texas
Car51 - This is an excellent post as well as an interesting one. At this point we see the symptom of what happened and not the cause(s). We know there was short tripping. Short tripping allows condensation buildup in the sump. The moisture weakens the cellulose used to make the media. The worst months in SW Pennsylvania are Dec, Jan, Febr and Mar. If the oil and filter were in service during this time, the number of "cool" starts may have contributed to forming a tear. A filter using blended media or full synthetic media might be needed to prevent a recurrence.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
789
Location
Lynchburg, VA, USA
All these torn filters are disconcerting, with Puro, Champ and now Wix. Makes Fram look like the cat's meow. I never thought I would say that...
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
381
Location
Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
Napa filters are warrantied to perform as per the vehicle manufacturers maintenance schedule. see warranty here http://www.napafilters.com/wp-content/uploads/NAPA-Warranty-Global-English-Rev-06-16.pdf
This is interesting. It is so generic, it leaves the Napa warranty up to the vehicle OEM. It isn't even specific to the filter PN or brand. If I was making oil filters and letting the vehicle OEM set the warranty, I'd design for the longest oil cycle and then add a safety factor. For example, many cars now have a 10,000 mile cycle so thesefilters should last to at least 15,000 miles IMHO. Sure wish we could figure out why all these different filters have their media fail in the same general location
 

ZeeOSix

$100 site donor 2022
Joined
Jul 22, 2010
Messages
35,087
Location
PNW
Originally Posted By: Onug
Sure wish we could figure out why all these different filters have their media fail in the same general location
The consensus of many members here is that the tearing problem is caused by too wide of pleat spacing combined with brittle media that tears instead of flexing when oil flow force pushes the pleat sideways. That's why all the posted photos of torn media is at the seam where the pleats are widely spaced out. Never see any tightly spaced pleats with tears.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
1,807
Location
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Onug
Sure wish we could figure out why all these different filters have their media fail in the same general location
The consensus of many members here is that the tearing problem is caused by too wide of pleat spacing combined with brittle media that tears instead of flexing when oil flow force pushes the pleat sideways. That's why all the posted photos of torn media is at the seam where the pleats are widely spaced out. Never see any tightly spaced pleats with tears.
The clip may contribute to this failure site also. The clip immobilizes the media and then the adjacent pleats have to flex to account for it.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
3,489
Location
Northeast Nebraska
6,xxx miles. Lots of short trips and 60% hauling stuff Special conditions- 5000 miles or 6 months, 200 hrs. Includes pulling a load and short trips Knowing this are we still blaming the filter?
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
381
Location
Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
6,xxx miles. Lots of short trips and 60% hauling stuff Special conditions- 5000 miles or 6 months, 200 hrs. Includes pulling a load and short trips Knowing this are we still blaming the filter?
Unless they exceeded the 200hr mark, it seems like the oil filter wouldn't care about the other conditions. Maybe a combination of time and hot temperatures due to towing might fatigue the filter quicker. But this filter could be used on any number of engines and maybe another OEM can go 7,000 miles in "Special Conditions". So yeah, I still blame the filter.
 

ZeeOSix

$100 site donor 2022
Joined
Jul 22, 2010
Messages
35,087
Location
PNW
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Onug
Sure wish we could figure out why all these different filters have their media fail in the same general location
The consensus of many members here is that the tearing problem is caused by too wide of pleat spacing combined with brittle media that tears instead of flexing when oil flow force pushes the pleat sideways. That's why all the posted photos of torn media is at the seam where the pleats are widely spaced out. Never see any tightly spaced pleats with tears.
The clip may contribute to this failure site also. The clip immobilizes the media and then the adjacent pleats have to flex to account for it.
Agree ... the seam (crimped or glued) makes that pleat more ridged and less flexible.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
1,807
Location
Houston, Texas
Note: Wix does not offer this line with their name on it. The NAPA ProSelect is an entry level filter. It is designed to meet a low price point. The wide pleat spacing sets the stage for the location of tear formation. Environmental factors just tend to assist with the tearing process.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
381
Location
Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Note: Wix does not offer this line with their name on it. The NAPA ProSelect is an entry level filter. It is designed to meet a low price point. The wide pleat spacing sets the stage for the location of tear formation. Environmental factors just tend to assist with the tearing process.
That's an important consideration to remember. At the end of the day, NAPA determined their requirements and if they chose price over quality, then that's all on them. I can't blame a company like Wix for designing filters for other brands that might not meet their own quality standards. If NAPA wants to degrade their brand with sub-par filters, that's 100% their fault.
 
Joined
Jan 13, 2016
Messages
3,489
Location
Northeast Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Onug
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
6,xxx miles. Lots of short trips and 60% hauling stuff Special conditions- 5000 miles or 6 months, 200 hrs. Includes pulling a load and short trips Knowing this are we still blaming the filter?
Unless they exceeded the 200hr mark, it seems like the oil filter wouldn't care about the other conditions. Maybe a combination of time and hot temperatures due to towing might fatigue the filter quicker. But this filter could be used on any number of engines and maybe another OEM can go 7,000 miles in "Special Conditions". So yeah, I still blame the filter.
I guess I'm just saying it would of been nice to see what the filter looked like at 5k and whether it was torn at that time. This is why it doesn't bother me to spend the extra three or four bucks twice a year on a better filter.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
1,807
Location
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
Originally Posted By: Onug
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
6,xxx miles. Lots of short trips and 60% hauling stuff Special conditions- 5000 miles or 6 months, 200 hrs. Includes pulling a load and short trips Knowing this are we still blaming the filter?
Unless they exceeded the 200hr mark, it seems like the oil filter wouldn't care about the other conditions. Maybe a combination of time and hot temperatures due to towing might fatigue the filter quicker. But this filter could be used on any number of engines and maybe another OEM can go 7,000 miles in "Special Conditions". So yeah, I still blame the filter.
I guess I'm just saying it would of been nice to see what the filter looked like at 5k and whether it was torn at that time. This is why it doesn't bother me to spend the extra three or four bucks twice a year on a better filter.
Onug - NAPA marketing copy for ProSelect states: Important Information: Oil Drain Intervals Of Up To 5000 Miles / 8000 Kilometers. NAPA marketing copy for Gold states: Important Information: Manufacturer OE Recommended Oil Change Intervals This Filter Traps Up To 50% More Dirt And Contaminants Than ProSelect w/ The Best Combination Of Capacity & Efficiency For Severe Conditions. Your expectations are for the Gold not ProSelect. Duffyjr - I would like to see what the ProSelect would do over 5000 miles too. We have seen other filters made by other manufacturers with wide pleat spaces fail early. This is a point of maximum stress on the media.
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
381
Location
Washington, USA
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
Originally Posted By: Onug
Originally Posted By: Duffyjr
6,xxx miles. Lots of short trips and 60% hauling stuff Special conditions- 5000 miles or 6 months, 200 hrs. Includes pulling a load and short trips Knowing this are we still blaming the filter?
Unless they exceeded the 200hr mark, it seems like the oil filter wouldn't care about the other conditions. Maybe a combination of time and hot temperatures due to towing might fatigue the filter quicker. But this filter could be used on any number of engines and maybe another OEM can go 7,000 miles in "Special Conditions". So yeah, I still blame the filter.
I guess I'm just saying it would of been nice to see what the filter looked like at 5k and whether it was torn at that time. This is why it doesn't bother me to spend the extra three or four bucks twice a year on a better filter.
Onug - NAPA marketing copy for ProSelect states: Important Information: Oil Drain Intervals Of Up To 5000 Miles / 8000 Kilometers. NAPA marketing copy for Gold states: Important Information: Manufacturer OE Recommended Oil Change Intervals This Filter Traps Up To 50% More Dirt And Contaminants Than ProSelect w/ The Best Combination Of Capacity & Efficiency For Severe Conditions. Your expectations are for the Gold not ProSelect. Duffyjr - I would like to see what the ProSelect would do over 5000 miles too. We have seen other filters made by other manufacturers with wide pleat spaces fail early. This is a point of maximum stress on the media.
That's not how I read it based upon the link at the beginning of this thread, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the correct assessment for the filter. I don't have the time to compare both and see where my confusion lies right now. But would help explain the failure. With the great quality of even conventional oil these days, it's better to find deals on oil and not skimp on filters.
 
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
1,807
Location
Houston, Texas
Car51 - this one is somewhat of a puzzle because Ford's owner's manual is confusing at best and NAPA's recommended service interval does not coincide with the OLM. There are a few things I discovered from the Diesel Supplement. http://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_C...-US_04_2015.pdf 1. The test for severe service is on page 46. If operating conditions meet any of the conditions, then Ford recommends 5W40 oil not 10W30. 2. Ford recommends changing oil and filter based on the OLM. Recommended filter FL-2051S. Appropriate oil viscosity grades are documented on page 59. The OLM discussion begins on page 63. 3. The problem being the OLM may not alert until after the 5000 miles given by NAPA for the ProSelect filter. If this were my problem I would choose a better filter with better media and more capacity than the ProSelect. Sorry for any confusion on my part.
 

53' Stude

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 12, 2015
Messages
23,101
Location
In the shop
WellOiled: I value your input and advice, thank you. I do my best. Friend said "no way in hades, is this getting a MC filter!" I said Baldwin or Donaldson then wink
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top