Mystik JT8 15w50 HEDO - 2014 Road King, AUG. 2017

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MolaKule's statement is not negative, he is just pointing out that the additive pack uses magnesium, the newer additive packs are replacing some magnesium with boron. Both work, Harley has a boron based additive pack for SYN3 and the HD 360 conventional. SYN3 and HD 360 have around 700 ppm magnesium and 300 ppm boron. The Mystic has about 1000 ppm magnesium with almost 0 boron. Two ways to get the same results.
 

alarmguy

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Originally Posted By: shanneba
MolaKule's statement is not negative, he is just pointing out that the additive pack uses magnesium, the newer additive packs are replacing some magnesium with boron. Both work, Harley has a boron based additive pack for SYN3 and the HD 360 conventional. SYN3 and HD 360 have around 700 ppm magnesium and 300 ppm boron. The Mystic has about 1000 ppm magnesium with almost 0 boron. Two ways to get the same results.
Incorrect, he didnt point out anything about magnesium or boron. SO without any documentation this is all speculation by implying A Chevron product (or forumlation) called Oronite is being used in a Citgo product and that product is an older version of current day Oronite. But do understand, the results are what counts and the magnesium based package is doing quite well. Once again, we wrongly (my opinion) assume that the only oil additive packages in oil are the tiny handful of elements that labs like Blackstone and all the others test for. This is false, many other elements of an additive package are in the oil and do not show up in tests. One giant example is the package Valvoline uses, shows up as sodium in some of their oils. Another perfect example is Valvolines NEWEST HEDO CK4 OIL. 15 TIMES THE MAGNESIUM THEN THE VERY SMALL AMOUNT OF BORON and available to view right here in the UOAs for HEDO oil. Took me 5 seconds, first UOA this even. No big deal, doesnt matter what is in the oil to attain a result, questioning these general statements and even more so, seeing the latest Valvoline HEDO use much, much more magnesium then boron. There are others too.
 
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Originally Posted By: alarmguy
SO without any documentation this is all speculation by implying A Chevron product (or forumlation) called Oronite is being used in a Citgo product and that product is an older version of current day Oronite.
Oronite isn't a product. It's the name of Chevron's business unit that designs and builds additive packages.
 

alarmguy

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Originally Posted By: bulwnkl
Originally Posted By: alarmguy
SO without any documentation this is all speculation by implying A Chevron product (or forumlation) called Oronite is being used in a Citgo product and that product is an older version of current day Oronite.
Oronite isn't a product. It's the name of Chevron's business unit that designs and builds additive packages.
You are correct, thanks for correcting me. I misread the used of the word "Brand" at some point ... anyway Its a company for sure, click Molecules statement makes more sense to me now, though he never explained why he would suggestits an older forumula as there is nothing in the UOA to backup his statement. The links I provided still stand as they are, as far as the use of Magnesium vs Boron in Shannaba's statement. The use of an element based on my links can not show if its an older formula or newer, though nothing wrong with either as long as it meets its API claims.
 
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MINNESOTA
I noticed on both the new 2 gal jug and 5 gal pails of Mystik 15w-50 at Mill's Fleet Farm that there is no longer any mention of service categories. No Cx or Sx ratings. Thought that was interesting.
 
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alarmguy

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Silver bottle? On the back? Someone in your other thread just listed the API license sheet (see the link below) which you most likely saw by now. On the 15w50 there has never been a donut, just a claim of what it meets. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2017/09/full-16959-12981-mystik_page_001.jpg Someone posted this image on the first page of my UOA, this is exactly how my 2 gallon jugs look. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2017/08/full-70511-10961-m12.jpg
 
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Your oil bottle doesn't display an API symbol. Maybe that's whats confusing. Maybe just making a claim that it meets or exceeds the API standard isn't sufficient proof that an oil actually does to some.,,,
 

alarmguy

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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Your oil bottle doesn't display an API symbol. Maybe that's whats confusing. Maybe just making a claim that it meets or exceeds the API standard isn't sufficient proof that an oil actually does to some.,,,
I agree completely (except its not my bottle) and ironically why I posted in the HEDO Diesel oil section what I did days before your post. (see link below and read first page) The thing is, if you want a 15 or 20/50 CH4+ or better HEDO oil in the USA you have to settle and trust a name brand company to be telling the truth as far as the "claim" of what it meets. I only know of 2 oils in the 15 or 20/50 HEDO range and both of them "claim" to meet API classification but I do not see the donut. Yet over seas 15 and 20/50 HEDOs are easy to find. Maybe there is a reason for this, I dont know. Those two oils that I know of are Amsoil and Mystic. Amsoil made by Amsoil and Mystik made by Citgo, two name brands that sell certified oils. So its blind faith, much the same as maybe 50% of motorcycle oils on the market that carry zero certifications, only claims. For me personally I trust the Citgo Mystik brand way more then a motorcycle rating simply because the Mystik is used and produced with a claimed c rating. They would be blowing up equipment far more expensive then a cheap motorcycle, never mind ruining their brand which is acknowledged in the agriculture industry. Its whatever one is comfortable with, me, I trust Citgo being, even more so, with someone in the HEDO sction called into my statement of exactly what you posted, only I posted first! He produced a paper saying the 15/50 Citgo does/is certified as a CH4/CI oil. But to each his own, if someone is not comfortable using an oil such as this, I agree with you COMPLETELY, by all means, dont use it! For me, I dont see much choice unless someone can tell me where to buy 50 weight CH4+ or certified oil in the USA! I prefer the donut but gave up looking and why I ran so many UOAs. I trust Citgo/Mystik a little bit because their mainstream oils are all certified, but a 50 weight HEDO in the USA with a CH4/CI rating is almost uncalled for in modern diesel engines, except in heavy industry and farm equipment which is supposed to be the reason Citgo produces it. Anyway, click here to see what I wrote before you did!
 
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alarmguy

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Originally Posted By: BigCahuna
Your oil bottle doesn't display an API symbol. Maybe that's whats confusing. Maybe just making a claim that it meets or exceeds the API standard isn't sufficient proof that an oil actually does to some.,,,
Just to make sure, as a follow up to my reply to you above this one, here is the link provided by someone in the forums to me. Its shows the oil we are talking about as a licensed API oil in CJ4+ I was never aware of this and agreed with your post completely then someone came up with this info and I was thrilled. Click here mystik 15/50
 
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I'll snap a picture of the bottles next time I'm there. It looks just like the one you linked too, but doesn't have that white section in the middle mentioning service cats. Thanks for the API link to the product though, I hadn't seen that before.
 
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i like the 15-50 viscosity for my bikes, thin enough in cooler weather but thicker for the heat! i almost went with Mystic but opted for Spectro's PAO motorcycle oil, $13 a L del, last changes i got a deal on Silkolene, group III with Ester Pro4 motorcycle oil for $10 a L del, it worked well, looked for it but no deals found!!! i found 20-50 ok for summer but even cool weather made starting harder, + of course while it cranks slowly oil circulation is minimal, not good IMO
 

alarmguy

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Yes, agree, I would be leary of 20/50 in the cooler weather of the Northeast. Born, raised, spent most my life there until a decade ago, now in the southeast and loving it but still like the 15/50 idea for the cold weather in the lower 60s. Yet it wouldnt matter to me as much here but the 15w50 is the only CH4+/CI4 rated oil I can find for the bike and what I prefer. BTW, went for a ride last evening and it was still above 80 degrees, record breaking day for us yesterday at 91. Sadly its coming to an end soon. ...
 
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Running Mystic JT8 15w50 in my ZRX1200 currently, 3700 miles so far. Looking for over 4000 before I think about a sample. Shift quality remains great! Every oil I have tested over the years has given good results. There is ebb and flow with different readings however they all remain with in what I consider a margin of error when you are talking parts per million. Best oil so far is Rotella T5 synthetic blend 15W40. Look forward to seeing how the Mystic compares.
 
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alarmguy

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Originally Posted By: Bonz
Running Mystic JT8 15w50 in my ZRX1200 currently, 3700 miles so far. Looking for over 4000 before I think about a sample. Shift quality remains great! Every oil I have tested over the years has given good results. There is ebb and flow with different readings however they all remain with in what I consider a margin of error when you are talking parts per million. Best oil so far is Rotella T5 synthetic blend 15W40. Look forward to seeing how the Mystic compares.
Yes, that will be interesting for sure, I look forward to seeing it. I also agree that all API oils perform just as good across the board for the oil type required by an automaker, there really is no proof to the contrary and to me, all oil is equal at any price in the category required by the maker of the engine.. I do think it gets a little dicey with motorcycles, as you know metric generally have shared sumps, there is a real difference in shift quality with some oils, then the other extreme, bikes that do not share engine oil. Indian and Harley only recommend their own brand, meaning there is no class oil recommended but as I posted, at least Harley gives you an emergency classification of diesel oil so I use that gray area to choose the Mystik. Not that it is right, its just what I do as I feel I am closer to what the manufacturers oil is composed of and why, in fact I know it :o) ... .
 
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