My Top (3) GDI Oils

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by loneryder
Why do the HM oils have much less PAO??


From what I understand,all M1 oils from 5W20-15W50 are group 3 Visom base. I wonder if their 0W50 racing oil is a group 3 or 4?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
Originally Posted by loneryder
Why do the HM oils have much less PAO??
From what I understand,all M1 oils from 5W20-15W50 are group 3 Visom base. I wonder if their 0W50 racing oil is a group 3 or 4?

The Group III+ Visom base stock, ExxonMobil's own product made in UK, came around to replace Group IV PAO ten years ago when Mobil 1 transitioned from API SM to API SN in October 2010. Later they changed the formulations again, with Group III+ Visom replaced by GTL and other non-Visom Group III/III+ base stocks. I don't know if they still make Visom -- production may have stopped.

See the MSDSs for base-oil information.

• 1-decene is PAO.
• C18 - 50 distillates (CAS # 848301-69-9) is GTL.
• The base oil is about 75 - 85% of the oil. Non-FS and non-ESP Mobil 1 oils use some Group V AN (alkylated naphthalene) in the base oil. FS and ESP 1 Mobil oils use 5 - 7% POE in the base oil. Neither is shown in the MSDSs. Group III/III+ makes up the remaining balance of the Mobil 1 base oils. It is sometimes shown but not always.

https://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by bbhero
But... Edyvw was right though.... Look at your list in terms of "tougher" specs..

No, because Noack alone does not help you determine the base-oil type without knowing the base-oil viscosity.

For example take MB 229.5. While it has the toughest Noack spec -- 10% -- it can still be made and is still made from Group III. I bet what is inside those expensive bottles of the Mercedes - Benz Genuine Engine Oil is nothing but plain Group III.

The Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 is mostly GTL (about 3/4 GTL, 1/4 PAO) now, and it satisfies MB 229.5.

However, the Mobil 1 Extended Performance 0W-20 and Mobil 1 Annual Protection 0W-20 (and also the Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0W-16) are fully PAO-based. Therefore, they are simply better oils in terms of resistance to oxidation, which is what these OEM specs are about, and which is what is important when you look at the IVD issue in GDI/TGDI engines, not to mention the turbocharger deposits. They are also a lot more expensive to make, as PAO costs perhaps twice as much as GTL.

OEM specs only ensure a minimum quality standard, just like ILSAC/API does. Results still vary greatly from oil to oil, and an oil subject to lower OEM standards could be of higher quality than an oil subjected higher OEM standards, depending on who makes it.

 

[bbhero]

No.... Edyvw was right....



MB 229.5 is way tougher than API SN plus...

Dexos1 Gen 2 is a good bit tougher than API...


You ain't making Dexos Gen 2 with all group II ..

And you surely ain't making MB 229.5 with group II.....

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by bbhero
No.... Edyvw was right....

Get over it.....

MB 229.5 is way tougher than API SN plus...

You don't even read and try to understand posts. No one said MB 229.5 wasn't tougher than generic API SN PLUS. There are a lot more specs on the bottle of an ILSAC Mobil 1 than API SN PLUS. For example the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40 carries both MB 229.5 and API SN PLUS, and the lower-viscosity Mobil 1 oils that cannot carry the MB 229.5 spec simply because of the lower viscosity are still of the same as or even of higher quality than the Mobil 1 FS 0W-40. Moreover, oils can still vary greatly in quality even if they have the same approval.

 

[bbhero]

He's right.....

Get over that....

You are very, very, very intelligent. . I know you know that MB 229.5 is way tougher than basic API...

API SN is not no where near as tough a standard....

As say MB 229.5 or even Dexos.....

Not close...

And... Not just noack.... Other measurables has well....

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by bbhero
He's right.....

Get over that....

You are very, very, very intelligent. . I know you know that MB 229.5 is way tougher than basic API...

API SN is not no where near as tough a standard....

As say MB 229.5 or even Dexos.....

Not close...

And... Not just noack.... Other measurables has well....

So, the GTL-based M1 FS 0W-40 with MB 229.5 is a better oil than the fully PAO-based M1 EP 0W-20 and M1 AP 0W-20?

 

[ChrisD46]

For my 2017 Sonata GDI , I will run Valvoline Advanced 5W30 - after that it's a toss up as to PP / PUP 5W30 . I don't believe their is a benefit to M1 5W30 EP as I can only run 5K OCI's max with this GDI engine (i.e. fuel dilution , soot , etc. ) and chewing up oil are limiting factors .

 

[bbhero]

Like I said.....

A routine..... API SN plus.... 5w30....with say 65-70 percent group II and 10-15 group III...

Vs.........


A full synthetic Dexos Gen 2 like I don't know say Cam2 Dexos1 Gen 2 full synthetic....

Which has the better base oil ????

Ahh.... The Cam2 Dexos1 Gen 2 full synthetic... Which by the way..... Has 25-40 percent PAO in it... With the rest of the base oil being group III.....


Which one has the better base oil ???

Which standard is tougher??

API SN plus.... Or Dexos1 Gen 2 ??

Answer.... Dexos1 Gen 2....

And MB 229.5 or Porsche c30 way way way tougher than API SN plus....

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by bbhero
He's right.....

Get over that....

You are very, very, very intelligent. . I know you know that MB 229.5 is way tougher than basic API...

API SN is not no where near as tough a standard....

As say MB 229.5 or even Dexos.....

Not close...

And... Not just noack.... Other measurables has well....

So, the GTL-based M1 FS 0W-40 with MB 229.5 is a better oil than the fully PAO-based M1 EP 0W-20 and M1 AP 0W-20?



MB 229.5 is tougher than Dexos1 Gen 2...

Good bad or indifferent... It is tougher...

Porsche c30 is tougher too....

Porsche a40 is tougher and harder to meet than Dexos1 Gen 2 and certainly tougher than API SN plus...


Mobil 1 0w40 and Castrol 0w40 both have harder and tougher specs than a 0w20....

In a seriously demanding application.... Like tracking a car on a road course... Mobil 1 0w40.

 

[Gokhan]

You're not helping anyone here.

You don't want to use a full-SAPS MB 229.5 oil in a GDI/TGDI engine because of the IVD issue. The full-SAPS A3/B4 family is a somewhat obsolete oil spec, which is hardly used in the new cars.

VW 504.00 is suitable for GDI/TGDI engines. However, it's very hard to find and expensive in the US, and it doesn't help with the fuel economy. Moreover, it's not necessarily better for the intake valves than some common synthetic oils mentioned in this thread.

buster's thread is about oil selection in the US for GDI/TGDI engines. Your best bet is to find a mid-SAPS dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil from a top manufacturer who uses high-quality PAO and GTL base stocks. He was pointing out to the importance of the SA level and base-oil quality among other things, and I also mentioned the antioxidant content.

When edyvw jumped in and made a blanket statement about Euro oils, as he often does, it didn't help the thread or anyone who was looking for specific answers in the oil selection to combat the IVD issue in the latest GDI/TGDI engines.

 

[53' Stude]

Gokhan: so am I right that this oil is about 40-50% GTL? What are the other base oils as I'm not that bright.

Thank You

 

[bbhero]

You are not helping either....



Go ahead.....

Tell me and anyone else....

That a API SN plus is somehow magically tough a standard as MB 229.5 or Porsche c30...

Please.... Go ahead.....

Explain that....

You can't....

 

[bbhero]

And you are dancing around the obvious...

Exactly what edyvw said was right....

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by 53' Stude
Gokhan: so am I right that this oil is about 40-50% GTL? What are the other base oils as I'm not that bright.

Thank You

The base oil is about 80% of the oil. So, it's roughly half-GTL-based, perhaps a little over half. There would be some Group V AN, and the remaining balance would be Group III/III+.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by bbhero
And you are dancing around the obvious...

Exactly what edyvw said was right....

edyvw only made a vague blanket statement, which didn't even mean anything.

Nothing is obvious here. People are looking for important answers on a complicated issue.

 

[bbhero]

In terms of base oils...

I'd bet ahhh good money you ain't making a Dexos1 Gen 2 oil from all group II....

And I'd surely bet good money you are not making MB 229.5, Porsche c30, or Porsche a40 or BMW LL-01 from all group II....


Just like what I said about the Cam2 Dexos1 Gen 2 full synthetic 5w30 I mentioned already....

That oil actually has 25-41 percent PAO in it...

Which is similar to Mobil 1 EP 5w30....



I do agree with you on the base oil part to a decent degree...

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by bbhero
And you are dancing around the obvious...

Exactly what edyvw said was right....

edyvw only made a vague blanket statement, which didn't even mean anything.

Nothing is obvious here. People are looking for important answers on a complicated issue.



He still was correct....


A basic API SN plus standard is no match for tougher specs....

 

[53' Stude]

Gokhan: Thank You for the information sir

What do you think of Valvoline Advanced synthetic?

 

[bbhero]

I do agree with you on the base oil aspect to a decent degree...


Gokhan I believe you are right about that to a large point.

The specs are what they are.... And API SN plus is not on the same field as much tougher specs like Porsche c30 or MB 229.5.