My Top (3) GDI Oils

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by buster

I'm not sure why some folks are pushing this post in an unnecessary direction. Let's stay on topic here. This is about the best choice for GDI engines knowing what we know NOW. With that said, based on the Afton Study Gokhan shared we know the following: 1. Base oil quality 2. Sulfated Ash level 3. Noack When looking for an oil that will only help reduce intake valve deposits you want to consider those 3 things, with the first 2 being of most importance. I've based my oil decision on those 3 things and have found that: Mobil 1 AP/EP, Vavoline and Driven are the top 3. See my first post. Driven doesn't officially meet any API specs but is arguably the best of the bunch. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about all this. *Dwight, the only thing about the Castrol oil I don't like is the SA level of 1.0. Mobil 1 is .8. Keep in mind there are always tradeoffs with formulations. This is strictly focused on GDI ENGINES.

Gokhan is pushing it to irrelevant direction. Noack is valuable parameter, and actually I like to pay attention to that a lot. But what matters is final product. That is it. I mentioned Euro oils because they have approval process unlike many other manufacturers. It is not all about Noack (and it is much more complex than just base stocks as many ils with better base stocks have higehr Noack value than those with what suppose to be lower quality base stock. Mobil1 ESP Formula 5W30 which is discontinued is prime example). SAPS issue is known among Euro engines for a long time, and DI engines in VW vehicles had that issue like 15 years ago. There are numerous studies about how much oil helps with CBU and Lubrizol did that loooooooong time ago where they determined that difference between VW 504.00/507.00 oil and VW502.00 oil can be 167% more deposits using VW502.00. Also, PCV system is extremely relevant when one talks about CBU. But ultimately, what matters for customer is what kind of approval process oil went through. This subject is discussed in Euro section for more than 10 years, and if you really want detailed information, go there, you will have more than enough. If you want best oils, you have to go Euro oil route, but then you will have to pay often more.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06

What's the difference between Mobil 1 ESP X1 0w-30 vs Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30?

Their MSDSs are identical. They are the same product except for "X1" in the label. X1, X2, X3, and X4 are identification marks Mobil 1 has introduced recently so that the drivers or mechanics don't get confused when picking up the right oil out of the plethora of ESP varieties on the shelves. It's half-GTL-based with a dash of PAO and POE, the rest being Group III. If you want to be absolutely certain whether they are identical formulations, you can compare the four-digit revision numbers (RN numbers) on the date stamps on the bottles, which identify the formulations. There is also the Mobil 1 ESP LV 0W-30, LV meaning low-viscosity. It is an ACEA-C2-only product with HTHS = 3.0 cP, as opposed to the simultaneous C2 & C3 and HTHS = 3.5 cP for the ESP X1 and ESP without LV. It has a similar base-oil combination, with a little more GTL. Out of the popular ESP varieties, there was also the Group-III+-Visom-based Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30, which has been replaced by the half-GTL-based Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30. Many people liked the Group-III+-Visom-based Mobil 1 ESP Formula 5W-30 better because of its extraordinary 5.6% Noack and 0.6% sulphated ash (SA). The newer half-GTL-based Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 (no "Formula" in the name) has 7.9% Noack and 0.8% SA. However, the ESP 5W-30 has 8.6 TBN vs. the 6.5 TBN of the ESP Formula 5W-30, thanks to the higher SA of the ESP vs. that of the ESP Formula. Unlike ESP 5W-30, ESP 0W-30 lacks dexos2. It certainly has a thinner base oil and more VII. Estimated base-oil viscosity (BO DV150) and VII content of selected oils

 

[ChrisD46]

Thanks Gokhan - interesting story regarding PP vs. PPPP not changing much in oxidation protection . Hyundai GDI engines are not good candidates for long drain OCI's , so perhaps the oxidation disadvantage of PP / PPP is less critical as OCI's are on the shorter side (i.e. 5K mile OCI's or less) .

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by ChrisD46

Valvoline Advanced 5W30 (lower VII's but higher ash) M1 5W30 (higher VII's but lower ash) PP 5W30 (higher VII's , lower ash , oxidation is higher than above two) *Gokhan pick my GDI oil for me (lol !) … I have all three oils in my stash - I won't be buying any more oils until the new SP spec comes out in May and we learn more about these new formulations !

LOL. I don't want to be responsible for anybody's life choices. They are all good oils. Don't you have to use all of them anyway? Some internal Mobil 1 data someone here sent me showed that the Mobil 1 is far superior to the old PP and the new PPPP in the oxidation test (a much longer time until the oxidation starts), and the new GTL-based PPPP hasn't improved over the old PP in oxidation resistance. Do I believe it? I don't know. I think you would be fine with any of these oils.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by edyvw

Originally Posted by buster

I'm not sure why some folks are pushing this post in an unnecessary direction. Let's stay on topic here. This is about the best choice for GDI engines knowing what we know NOW. With that said, based on the Afton Study Gokhan shared we know the following: 1. Base oil quality 2. Sulfated Ash level 3. Noack When looking for an oil that will only help reduce intake valve deposits you want to consider those 3 things, with the first 2 being of most importance. I've based my oil decision on those 3 things and have found that: Mobil 1 AP/EP, Vavoline and Driven are the top 3. See my first post. Driven doesn't officially meet any API specs but is arguably the best of the bunch. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about all this. *Dwight, the only thing about the Castrol oil I don't like is the SA level of 1.0. Mobil 1 is .8. Keep in mind there are always tradeoffs with formulations. This is strictly focused on GDI ENGINES.

Gokhan is pushing it to irrelevant direction. Noack is valuable parameter, and actually I like to pay attention to that a lot. But what matters is final product. That is it. I mentioned Euro oils because they have approval process unlike many other manufacturers. It is not all about Noack (and it is much more complex than just base stocks as many ils with better base stocks have higehr Noack value than those with what suppose to be lower quality base stock. Mobil1 ESP Formula 5W30 which is discontinued is prime example). SAPS issue is known among Euro engines for a long time, and DI engines in VW vehicles had that issue like 15 years ago. There are numerous studies about how much oil helps with CBU and Lubrizol did that loooooooong time ago where they determined that difference between VW 504.00/507.00 oil and VW502.00 oil can be 167% more deposits using VW502.00. Also, PCV system is extremely relevant when one talks about CBU. But ultimately, what matters for customer is what kind of approval process oil went through. This subject is discussed in Euro section for more than 10 years, and if you really want detailed information, go there, you will have more than enough. If you want best oils, you have to go Euro oil route, but then you will have to pay often more.

I guess I'm not following you. Where is the overlap here?

 

[Chase1]

Interesting discussion on an interesting topic. Especially with the rapid proliferation of GDI and TDGI engines in a lot of vehicles. Facts are always much more important than opinion in any issue and I would question Gokhan's statement of "some internal Mobil 1 data someone here sent me showed that the Mobil 1 is far superior to the old PP and the new PPPP in the oxidation test ( a much longer time until the oxidation starts), and the new GTL-based PPPP hasn't improved over the old PP in oxidation resistance. " According to information provided by Shell engineers S. Gullapalli and A. Falender in an article in Gas Processing News back in 2014 ( I believe this article was quoted by a forum member in a related discussion here recently. ) "The isoparrafin content in Shell base oils permits high viscosity indices, good low temperature properties AND IMPROVED OXIDATION resistance compared to other Group ll and Group lll base oils." That flies in the face of Gokhan's misleading statement of opinion on the "superiority" of Mobil1 regarding oxidation performance. There is no question of the quality of Mobil1 oils. Neither is there a question about the quality of SOPUS oils. Their GTL base oils are very high in quality and have been said to exceed regular Group lll oils. In fact, Molecule has written here that he believes that GTL oils should be a separate category from regular Group lll oils. In many tests and papers, Group lll oils can perform close to and equal that of Group lV oils depending on the formulation. Over the years here there have been trends about "which is better," Group lll, Group IV and Group V base oils. And yes, the base oil can constitute 75-90 percent of a finished oil, it is the quality and formulation of the additives into the base oil which makes for the ultimate performance. And no doubt testing and approvals confirm the required performance for the uses intended.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Chase1

That flies in the face of Gokhan's misleading statement of opinion on the "superiority" of Mobil1 regarding oxidation performance.

It's not a misleading statement. It's an internal document comparing Mobil 1 5W-30, Pennzoil Platinum without PurePlus 5W-30, and Pennzoil Platinum with PurePlus 5W-30 in Sequence IIIE. Both Pennzoil Platinums, regardless of PurePlus (GTL), took 110 hours to oxidize (defined by a 100% increase in viscosity) in the Sequence IIIE test. Mobil 1 took 190 hours to oxidize -- 80 hours longer. However, it's an internal document, and I am not allowed to share it. I cannot confirm its validity either, as the test wasn't done by an independent company. It's what it it is. Perhaps people on BITOG who used both Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum in extended OCIs can give us some insight. Moreover, I agree with you that both Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum are premium oils.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

For a few years now, Ultra Platinum has been advertised better pistons cleaning power (up-to 65% better) (Platinum 50% better) than any leading gasoline-only synthetic oils out there. No other oil bottler has been successful in getting that advertising wording removed. That's because truth-be-told and why I currently use it. I don't need the longest lasting oil.... not for 4-6K OCIs. I don't need the most slippery oil (Ravenol) either. Not at $12 per quart. It's low vicosity 30w and pumps very well in cold weather. When the new certs come out in a couple months, everyone here will re-examine all the oil jug specs. I may change-then to something else.

 

[buster]

Both Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum are great oils. Can't go wrong with either.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by buster

Sticking with 0w20: Readily available: 1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10% 2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA) 3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6% Boutique: Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%

Our Santa Fe Sport 2.0T has seen more Valvoline Synpower than anything else. Same for most of my previous vehicles. I wouldn't know what constitutes it being better but i have never had an issue. The VW won't as of right now because i only know of a few easily accessible VW508.00 motor oils and Valvoline isn't one.

 

[buster]

Before I got rid of my 2015 3, I wish I would have taken a look at the intake valves. The car only had Mobil 1 EP 0w20 during the 63k miles.

 

[RazorsEdge]

Originally Posted by wemay

Originally Posted by buster

Sticking with 0w20: Readily available: 1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10% 2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA) 3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6% Boutique: Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%

Our Santa Fe Sport 2.0T has seen more Valvoline Synpower than anything else. Same for most of my previous vehicles. I wouldn't know what constitutes it being better but i have never had an issue. The VW won't as of right now because i only know of a few easily accessible VW508.00 motor oils and Valvoline isn't one.

As long as you or anyone else can say they had no issues with an oil choice, then that's all that matters. Trying to chase the "ultimate" oil is a waste of time when IMO life is too short to be worrying about something so small.

 

[Chase1]

Well sir, without validation, confirmation, and substantiation, it would legally be considered "hearsay" which is inadmissible as proof. It's your word, and your word only. And while you have provided much information and many thought provoking topics, making a statement such as you have toward any "superiority" of a product can bias the conversation. It also runs against the provision of papers, tests, research, etc you have provided to substantiate your position in past threads. In this case....it is....but....it isn't... is more likely the reality. In any case, your input, knowledge, and ideas contribute substantially to the interest of many on his site. Let's just keep the comments about "superiority" to those that can be proven and substantiated, and not to those which can't.

 

[IndyFan]

Originally Posted by buster

Sticking with 0w20: Readily available: 1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10% 2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA) 3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6% Boutique: Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%

I agree. I've been running M1 EP for 10k OCI's in our Ecoboost. It has been doing just fine. I think it is outstanding oil.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by buster

Originally Posted by edyvw

Originally Posted by buster

I'm not sure why some folks are pushing this post in an unnecessary direction. Let's stay on topic here. This is about the best choice for GDI engines knowing what we know NOW. With that said, based on the Afton Study Gokhan shared we know the following: 1. Base oil quality 2. Sulfated Ash level 3. Noack When looking for an oil that will only help reduce intake valve deposits you want to consider those 3 things, with the first 2 being of most importance. I've based my oil decision on those 3 things and have found that: Mobil 1 AP/EP, Vavoline and Driven are the top 3. See my first post. Driven doesn't officially meet any API specs but is arguably the best of the bunch. I'm not sure what is so hard to understand about all this. *Dwight, the only thing about the Castrol oil I don't like is the SA level of 1.0. Mobil 1 is .8. Keep in mind there are always tradeoffs with formulations. This is strictly focused on GDI ENGINES.

Gokhan is pushing it to irrelevant direction. Noack is valuable parameter, and actually I like to pay attention to that a lot. But what matters is final product. That is it. I mentioned Euro oils because they have approval process unlike many other manufacturers. It is not all about Noack (and it is much more complex than just base stocks as many ils with better base stocks have higehr Noack value than those with what suppose to be lower quality base stock. Mobil1 ESP Formula 5W30 which is discontinued is prime example). SAPS issue is known among Euro engines for a long time, and DI engines in VW vehicles had that issue like 15 years ago. There are numerous studies about how much oil helps with CBU and Lubrizol did that loooooooong time ago where they determined that difference between VW 504.00/507.00 oil and VW502.00 oil can be 167% more deposits using VW502.00. Also, PCV system is extremely relevant when one talks about CBU. But ultimately, what matters for customer is what kind of approval process oil went through. This subject is discussed in Euro section for more than 10 years, and if you really want detailed information, go there, you will have more than enough. If you want best oils, you have to go Euro oil route, but then you will have to pay often more.

I guess I'm not following you. Where is the overlap here?

You are talking about GDI engines. Issues you are talking about European manufacturers had 15 years ago. Let's put on a side why some Asian and American vehicles have issues that VW had 15 years ago (or why they didn't learn on problems other had). My point is, if you are looking "best" oil, from consumer perspective, look for oil that has stringent approval process. Other gibberish mentioned here is just that. Not useful for consumer and definiately not possible to dissect completely on a forum.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by wemay

Originally Posted by buster

Sticking with 0w20: Readily available: 1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10% 2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA) 3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6% Boutique: Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%

Our Santa Fe Sport 2.0T has seen more Valvoline Synpower than anything else. Same for most of my previous vehicles. I wouldn't know what constitutes it being better but i have never had an issue. The VW won't as of right now because i only know of a few easily accessible VW508.00 motor oils and Valvoline isn't one.

And Noack is just ONE of variables. To base decision just on that one variable is ridiculous at best. That is why there is approval process so that customer does not have tow orry, or in Hyundai's case that is called: lottery.

 

[DallasCMT]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.

Been searching for hours for this kind of advice. Dealer offers free oil changes, but it's conventional oil for my GDI engine. Thank you.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by DallasCMT

Originally Posted by Gokhan

I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.

Been searching for hours for this kind of advice. Dealer offers free oil changes, but it's conventional oil for my GDI engine. Thank you.

You're welcome. Genesis says if A5/B5 (synthetic) 5W-30 is not available in your country, API SL/ILSAC GF-3 5W-30 or above is OK. Someone is taking advantage of that and going cheapo. I would run a dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 5W-30 in this engine. It takes 7.29 qt. You could probably grab two jugs of M1 EP 5W-30 from Walmart and ask the dealer to use them and return the half-full jug to you.

 

[DallasCMT]

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by DallasCMT

Originally Posted by Gokhan

I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.

Been searching for hours for this kind of advice. Dealer offers free oil changes, but it's conventional oil for my GDI engine. Thank you.

You're welcome. Genesis says if A5/B5 (synthetic) 5W-30 is not available in your country, API SL/ILSAC GF-3 5W-30 or above is OK. Someone is taking advantage of that and going cheapo. I would run a dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 5W-30 in this engine. It takes 7.29 qt. You could probably grab two jugs of M1 EP 5W-30 from Walmart and ask the dealer to use them and return the half-full jug to you.

I'll give it a try, just hope they're honest about it (and don't put the cheap stuff in my car while changing their own oil with my M1 EP). I've changed my own oil all my life (mostly use Pennzoil) but this new car comes with three years of free maintenance. The manual calls for ACEA A5 but they won't provide it. I raised the issue to Genesis corporate and they said it was up to the dealer, but dealer said corporate only reimburses them for conventional oil. ?? And as you probably know, Genesis "recommends" Quaker State, which the dealer uses (so they say) and their synthetic doesn't meet ACEA A5. It's a dumb loop if you ask me. Maybe I'll just do it myself. But anyway, I appreciate the advice. I'm using top-tier fuel and want to use the best oil reasonably possible for the 8-10 years I plan to own the car.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by DallasCMT

Originally Posted by Gokhan

Originally Posted by DallasCMT

Originally Posted by Gokhan

I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.

Been searching for hours for this kind of advice. Dealer offers free oil changes, but it's conventional oil for my GDI engine. Thank you.

You're welcome. Genesis says if A5/B5 (synthetic) 5W-30 is not available in your country, API SL/ILSAC GF-3 5W-30 or above is OK. Someone is taking advantage of that and going cheapo. I would run a dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 5W-30 in this engine. It takes 7.29 qt. You could probably grab two jugs of M1 EP 5W-30 from Walmart and ask the dealer to use them and return the half-full jug to you.

I'll give it a try, just hope they're honest about it (and don't put the cheap stuff in my car while changing their own oil with my M1 EP). I've changed my own oil all my life (mostly use Pennzoil) but this new car comes with three years of free maintenance. The manual calls for ACEA A5 but they won't provide it. I raised the issue to Genesis corporate and they said it was up to the dealer, but dealer said corporate only reimburses them for conventional oil. ?? And as you probably know, Genesis "recommends" Quaker State, which the dealer uses (so they say) and their synthetic doesn't meet ACEA A5. It's a dumb loop if you ask me. Maybe I'll just do it myself. But anyway, I appreciate the advice. I'm using top-tier fuel and want to use the best oil reasonably possible for the 8-10 years I plan to own the car.

Hyundai/Genesis/Kia oil recommendations are a mess. There is really no such thing as a separate ACEA A5 category anymore. ACEA A5 (gasoline) merged with ACEA B5 (light diesel) in 2004. ACEA 2002 ACEA 2004 I am sure QSUD satisfies ACEA A5/B5, but since this oil is only marketed in the US, they wouldn't bother to certify it for ACEA. Since the owner's manual also allows conventional oil in the footnote, there is not much you can do other than to bring your own oil with you.

 

[madeej11]

Sticking with 0w20: Readily available: 1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10% 2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA) 3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6% Boutique: Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%

I know it's an old thread but I couldn't help myself. You've listed Driven so I thought it would be ok to bring in Amsoil. Noack is 8.5 for 0w20 which is very good. That Valvoline Noack % seems off by quite a bit.