My Top (3) GDI Oils

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M1 5W-30 worked great in my 2007 MS3- for over 158k miles.BMW TPT 0W-30 seems to be the hot ticket for my N20 and N55 motors. As always, YMMV...
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by buster
Originally Posted by BurntMusic
Originally Posted by buster
Is C3 a mid-SAP oil?
According to the PDS of the oil, it's a low-SAPS oil
thumbsup
No, the terms low-SAPS (SA ⤠0.5%) and mid-SAPS (SA ⤠0.8%) are often used incorrectly in the industry. C3 is a mid-SAPS category, and the SA for C3 is between 0.6% and 0,8%. Otherwise, it would have to be C4 (low-SAPS, SA ⤠0.5%) or both C3 and C4 at the same time. However, according to the PDS, it isn't. Therefore, it's mid-SAPS, with 0.6% ⤠SA ⤠0.8%.
Thanks for this. What is C2 then?
 
We are using Schaeffer 5w20 in the Ford Escape 1.6 It's always in stock at our Napa store.
 
Originally Posted by TheIceStormof06
Originally Posted by Gokhan
No, the terms low-SAPS (SA ⤠0.5%) and mid-SAPS (SA ⤠0.8%) are often used incorrectly in the industry. C3 is a mid-SAPS category, and the SA for C3 is between 0.6% and 0,8%. Otherwise, it would have to be C4 (low-SAPS, SA ⤠0.5%) or both C3 and C4 at the same time. However, according to the PDS, it isn't. Therefore, it's mid-SAPS, with 0.6% ⤠SA ⤠0.8%.
Thanks for this. What is C2 then?
A1/B1: removed in 2016 A3/B3: to be removed in 2020 A5/B5: to be removed in 2020 A3/B4: full-SAPS, 1.0% ⤠SA ⤠1.6%, HTHS ⥠3.5 cP A7/B7: to be introduced in 2020, full-SAPS, SA ⤠1.6%, 3.5 cP ⥠HTHS ⥠2.9 cP, LSPI, chain-wear, and turbocharger-deposits tests C1: to be removed in 2020 because only one OEM specs it, low-SAPS, SA ⤠0.5%, HTHS ⥠2.9 cP C2: mid-SAPS, SA ⤠0.8%, HTHS ⥠2.9 cP C3: mid-SAPS, SA ⤠0.8%, HTHS ⥠3.5 cP C4: low-SAPS, SA ⤠0.5%, HTHS ⥠3.5 cP C5: mid-SAPS, SA ⤠0.8%, 2.8 cP ⥠HTHS ⥠2.6 cP C6: upgrades C5 in 2020, mid-SAPS, SA ⤠0.8%, 2.8 cP ⥠HTHS ⥠2.6 cP, LSPI, chain-wear, and turbocharger-deposits tests An oil can be certified for both C2 and C3 at the same time if it satisfies the stricter fuel-economy limits of C2 and has HTHS ⥠3.5 cP. Also note that ILSAC oils such as Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum that claim to be full-SAPS A5/B5 (or A7/B7) are often mid-SAPS, not full-SAPS, but since there is no lower SAPS limit in this spec, they can be certified for A5/B5 (or A7/B7).
 
Originally Posted by pbm
Gokhan: What are your thoughts on the Mobil1 AP 5w20 in my GDI Focus 2.0?....I scored a bunch of it at last years AZ 'Clearance'. I know form your post last year that it's a majority GIII unlike it's 0w20 brethren. I believe the GDI is harder on oil than the PI 2.5 version in my Escape based on how quickly the GDI turns the oil dark (soot, I think). Would I be better off doing shorter 5K OCIs on synblends, or even 7K on Supertech syn., than 10K on more expensive syns in this GDI engine? Thanks This is the tread from last year that I mentioned: M1 AFE 0W-16: PAO-based M1 AFE 0W-20: 1/2 PAO-based and some GTL M1 EP 0W-20: PAO-based M1 EP HM 0W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%) M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based M1 TP 0W-20: 2/3 PAO and 1/3 Group III M1 AP 0W-20: PAO-based M1 5W-20: 2/3 GTL M1 EP 5W-20: 1/3 PAO, a dash of GTL M1 EP HM 5W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%) M1 HM 5W-20: 1/4 GTL, a dash of PAO M1 TP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO M1 AP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO
M1 AP 5W-20 (or any other M1 AP) is certainly a good oil. It has extra antioxidant content for a longer OCI, which is also good to combat the IVD by reducing the oil oxidation. It still has quite a bit PAO. I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.
 
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by RazorsEdge
We are using Schaeffer 5w20 in the Ford Escape 1.6 It's always in stock at our Napa store.
Iron Asylum I'm guessing is in Pennsylvania?
It's actually the name of a gym.
 
Originally Posted by buster
Sticking with 0w20: Readily available: 1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10% 2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA) 3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6% Boutique: Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%
If you are going to talk about top oils, you have to venture into European approved oils. ILSAC GF-5 oils or API SN are not in the same category.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by buster
Sticking with 0w20: Readily available: 1. Mobil 1 EP/AP 0w20 - majority PAO/AN - SA .8 - Noack 10% 2. Valvoline Modern Engine - Unknown base oil/SA- Noack 10% (likely low SA based on VOA) 3. Vavoline Full Syn - Unknown base oil - SA .97 - Noack 7.6% Boutique: Driven DI 0w20 - mPAO - SA .72 - Noack 11%
If you are going to talk about top oils, you have to venture into European approved oils. ILSAC GF-5 oils or API SN are not in the same category.
Let's avoid blanket statements here, which don't help anyone. Sure, if we compare the European oils, which are practically all Group III or higher, to the conventional Group II/II+ ILSAC/API oils, it's apples vs. oranges, for the same reason it's apples vs. oranges to compare a conventional ILSAC/API oil to a synthetic ILSAC/API oil. However, in the US there is at least one spec that requires synthetic oil -- GM dexos. At the end it all boils down to the base-oil quality, which is loosely related to the Noack, loosely because you can only relate it to the base-oil quality if the cold viscosity (CCS) is the same for the comparison oils, which is roughly the case when comparing in the same SAE xW range but not otherwise. This the summary of the relative quality of various specs. However, keep in mind that it's not only about the oil quality but also the application requirements, such as the HTHS, LSPI protection, IVD reduction, etc. Noack specs (the lower the Noack, the stricter the oil spec) MB 229.5, 229.51: 10% Generic ACEA C4 (true low-SAPS (SA ⤠0.5%)): 11% RN 0720: 11% VW 504.00, 507.00: 11% MB 229.31: 12% RN 0710: 12% GM dexos1 Gen 3: 12.5% GM dexos1 Gen 2, GM dexos2: 13% All other European OEM: 13% All other generic ACEA: 13% Generic ILSAC/API: 15% VW 504.00 is the only spec that tests for the IVD. However, it's a thick oil (HTHS ⥠3.5 cP) and therefore not for better fuel economy. Generic ILSAC/API is the only spec that allows conventional Group II/II+ oil.
 
Originally Posted by Gokhan
[quote=pbm]Gokhan: What are your thoughts on the Mobil1 AP 5w20 in my GDI Focus 2.0?....I scored a bunch of it at last years AZ 'Clearance'. I know form your post last year that it's a majority GIII unlike it's 0w20 brethren. I believe the GDI is harder on oil than the PI 2.5 version in my Escape based on how quickly the GDI turns the oil dark (soot, I think). Would I be better off doing shorter 5K OCIs on synblends, or even 7K on Supertech syn., than 10K on more expensive syns in this GDI engine? Thanks M1 AP 5W-20 (or any other M1 AP) is certainly a good oil. It has extra antioxidant content for a longer OCI, which is also good to combat the IVD by reducing the oil oxidation. It still has quite a bit PAO. I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.
Thanks for that G.....would you shorten the OCI in a GDI or go the full 10K?
 
Originally Posted by pbm
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Gokhan: What are your thoughts on the Mobil1 AP 5w20 in my GDI Focus 2.0?....I scored a bunch of it at last years AZ 'Clearance'. I know form your post last year that it's a majority GIII unlike it's 0w20 brethren. I believe the GDI is harder on oil than the PI 2.5 version in my Escape based on how quickly the GDI turns the oil dark (soot, I think). Would I be better off doing shorter 5K OCIs on synblends, or even 7K on Supertech syn., than 10K on more expensive syns in this GDI engine? Thanks M1 AP 5W-20 (or any other M1 AP) is certainly a good oil. It has extra antioxidant content for a longer OCI, which is also good to combat the IVD by reducing the oil oxidation. It still has quite a bit PAO. I wouldn't run a conventional or a synthetic blend oil in a GDI engine because of the IVD issue. Even though it's a Ford, run a GM dexos1 Gen 2/Gen 3 oil. Conventional oil will oxidize and build carbon deposits faster on the intake valves than synthetic oil.
Thanks for that G.....would you shorten the OCI in a GDI or go the full 10K?
I would use a synthetic oil and do at least the recommended OCI. If I use a top synthetic such as the M1 EP or M1 AP, I would then run a little longer than the recommended OCI if I needed it.
 
Good information Gokhan. cheers The one outlier here is Valvoline Modern Engine. I'm wonder what type of proprietary detergent they are banking on to make a difference? We know base oil quality and SA levels are the two most important elements at helping to control IVD's. What about detergents and dispersant type?
 
If anyone is interested, here is what I consider the ultimate 0w20 for a GDI engine from Drive Oil (USA). PARAMETER TEST METHOD VALUE HT/HS ASTM D4683 - 2.9 TEOST ASTM D7097 - 15.2 Viscosity at 40°C. cSt ASTM D445 - 69.6 Viscosity at 100°C, cSt ASTM D445 - 8.6 Viscosity Index ASTM D2270- 161 Ash Content ASTM D874 - .72
 
Originally Posted by metroplex
These must be some small and light duty GTDI engines to run xW-20.
No.
 
Originally Posted by metroplex
These must be some small and light duty GTDI engines to run xW-20.
in cold areas they nearly all use 0w20 regardless of carb/tbi/pfi/gdi. Oil selection is based on viscosity, not fuel delivery strategies.
 
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