My sister's 2000 Durango is FUBAR'ed!!

[brianpavlovic]

Okay, i just finished doing a complete oil change on my sister's 2000 Dodge Durango with only 50,000 miles. I am the guy who recently asked about which oil should I use in her durango by the way. Anyhoo, After I unscrewed the oil pan bolt, the oil came out like molasses "...chug chug chug chug..." So, while it was draining, I unscrewed the filler cap and looked inside the valve cover......Take a guess what I found? I ran my finger inside it and this "black" tar stuff like a thin paste was on my finger and on the inside of the oil cap!!!!!! I showed my sister this "black tar" stuff and started getting upset. Who wants to guess what oil she has been using since new? Castrol 5W-30 dino.... I could have strangled her. It gets better.... I went to change the oil filter and saw a brown varnish on the metal plate where you unscrew the filter off. It looked like soneone took brown shoe polish and pasted it on there. I wiped offf as much as I could, but some of it would not come off. Black paste on the inside of the valve covers and brown shoe polish on the filter plate.....Please advise me so I can save her car.....
-Brian

 

[integrare]

When was the last time she changed the PCV valve?

 

[road_rascal]

Both of the manuals for my vehicles state PCV changes at 100K. How long were the oil change intervals?

 

[BigDenCCMD]

What about Auto Rx? This does not sound like it is a throw away.

 

[Cutehumor]

I would either run several 1000 oci with hdeo to slowly clean the crud out. or do an auto-rx treatment. In these situations, you have to watch yourself, if the engine is really sludged up, you might be the fallguy if it blows under your care. I read somewhere about durangos losing oil pressure.

Dodge durango engine failures

 

[JHZR2]

castrol 5w-30 isnt a terrible oil, sounds like either she drives too hard, doesnt do proper PM (what is the typical oil change interval?), or has a mechanical defect.

Since its the summer, Id get some auto-rx, and get her truck going on that. Use a 15w-40 diesel spec oil during the auto-rx stages.

Make sure all else is in order beforehand though, check PCV, etc.

JMH

 

[brianpavlovic]

Thanks for the advice, the OCI were probably around 5K-7K, but she does not drive a lot. She did complain about the idle going down and faal almost like the car is going to die and stall. After the Syn oil change, it did not do that anymore. I chose the new Pennzoil 10W-30 PLatinum Syn and I suspect that her SUV should start to come back to life. She drives mostly in the city to and from work and she lives less than a mile from her job. Here's the f'ed up part, she works for a Dodge Chrysler dealer as a secretary in the shop. She could not believe the "Black Stuff" that was present. I think I will just do Syn OCI at 1000 with a new filter every time. Can someone recommend a good oil with a high ester content for cleaning? I heard that the new Mobil 1 10W-30 Extended Performance oil has 50% more esters for cleaning and such. Any thoughts? So basically, she lives in the PA area outside of Philadelphia and drives about 10K a year and drives easy with her Durango.

 

[Pablo]

Seriously - follow the AutoRx advise. Do a two or even three cycle clean and rinse.

I don't think any synthetic oil will clean well enough or in time to prevent further damage. Sure synthetic oil does some cleaning - but oil is for lubricating, not cleaning sludge bombs. My apologies even to the fellow HDEO heads.

NOW - I have no doubt true synthetic oil would have prevented this garbage. This is another infamous Chrysler design issue.

 

[nickmckinney]

quote:

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Originally posted by brianpavlovic:
Thanks for the advice, the OCI were probably around 5K-7K, but she does not drive a lot. She did complain about the idle going down and faal almost like the car is going to die and stall. After the Syn oil change, it did not do that anymore. I chose the new Pennzoil 10W-30 PLatinum Syn and I suspect that her SUV should start to come back to life. She drives mostly in the city to and from work and she lives less than a mile from her job. Here's the f'ed up part, she works for a Dodge Chrysler dealer as a secretary in the shop. She could not believe the "Black Stuff" that was present. I think I will just do Syn OCI at 1000 with a new filter every time. Can someone recommend a good oil with a high ester content for cleaning? I heard that the new Mobil 1 10W-30 Extended Performance oil has 50% more esters for cleaning and such. Any thoughts? So basically, she lives in the PA area outside of Philadelphia and drives about 10K a year and drives easy with her Durango.

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That explains it there, she lives less than a mile from her job, does twice a year changes, lives in the northern country, and has the 4.7 which has a known sludge problem.

The oil probably doesn't get over 50F for half the winter, those 4.7 hold 6 quarts I believe.

Time for 2K changes of oil only and leave the filter on every other to third change IMHO.

 

[lobo11]

I take it this is the 4.7L engine? These engines are notorious for problems with condensation and foaming of the oil. I believe there is a post by a member who was experiencing the condensation problems. This problem certainly isn't going to be helped by her short trip driving. On Dodgedakotas.com this is a common concern for 4.7 owners, it isn't the oil as even synthetics have exhibited this problem. Guys over on the dakota wesite that drive short trip have resorted to oil heaters used year round, and many make it a point to take a longer drive once or twice a week as a preventative. Change the oil more frequently, she should be anyway in my opinion, with her short driving distance. I repeat this is not a Catrol dino or a dino issue, synthetic users experience oil issues with this engine as well.

 

[the_oil_dealer]

dont forget to use the biggest filter available for that thread pitch!!!!!

 

[VNT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo:
Seriously - follow the AutoRx advise. Do a two or even three cycle clean and rinse.

I don't think any synthetic oil will clean well enough or in time to prevent further damage. Sure synthetic oil does some cleaning - but oil is for lubricating, not cleaning sludge bombs. My apologies even to the fellow HDEO heads.

NOW - I have no doubt true synthetic oil would have prevented this garbage. This is another infamous Chrysler design issue.

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I'll call BS dude, get your facts straight. You dont even know which engine is in the D and your condemning the engine design??You dont know what the oil change interval is. Let see she drives 1 mile to and from work and changes it 5000-7000 K mile changes?? I wonder if it even gets changed once a year at best. Oh, the LA/magnum series engine have been around for 30+ years, so no design issue there. The 4.7 is another great engine, visit the DOC website or JU board many people with 150K plus miles and no issues. I own a 00 D with the 5.9 and a WJ with a 4.7. Both are great engines. I use the Amsoil 0w-30 in both. Sounds like this person neglected the engine and needs to learn a little about reading the FSM. Also it sounds like the engine still runs fine despite the abuse.

VNT

 

[JHZR2]

I think the key is really to get the truck out on the highway every so often.

Engines may have condensation buildup issues, etc., but that should be overcomable.

My mother drives 5 blocks to and from school, with herself and all her books in the car, average about 6 times a day. The engine (2.0L in a plymouth breeze) is always cold. Any condensate that goes to the oil ends up there. Now, this is a smaller, less powerful engine, with nearly 5 quart sump capacity, so (a) waste heat at idle and operation is less (b) power to sump capacioty is lower, so oil heat rates will be lower (c) it is a more efficient engine, so waqste heat will be slightly less to begin with.

We never have any problems with mositure in the oil, and UOAs always come back excellent at 5000 mi OCIs, given this 'severe' driving profile of lots of starts and shutdowns, around town errands, etc.

Moral of the story? Why does this engine do OK? Im convinced that it is because at least twice a month, it is used for 150-200 miles on the highway. This keeps the oil dry, so it can protect well.

Get her to use syn oil (youre on the right track there), and get her to do at least 15-20 miles highway driving, at least once or twice a month.

JMH

 

[VNT]

quote:

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Originally posted by lobo11:
I take it this is the 4.7L engine? These engines are notorious for problems with condensation and foaming of the oil. I believe there is a post by a member who was experiencing the condensation problems. This problem certainly isn't going to be helped by her short trip driving. On Dodgedakotas.com this is a common concern for 4.7 owners, it isn't the oil as even synthetics have exhibited this problem. Guys over on the dakota wesite that drive short trip have resorted to oil heaters used year round, and many make it a point to take a longer drive once or twice a week as a preventative. Change the oil more frequently, she should be anyway in my opinion, with her short driving distance. I repeat this is not a Catrol dino or a dino issue, synthetic users experience oil issues with this engine as well.

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They are notorious for foaming the oil in the filler tube, but do not create sludge. One guy on the JU Board bitched about this and another member who lived near by voluntered to remove the cam cover to stifle the guy. Guess what, when they took the valve cover off, it was clean as a whistle. Many members over there have switched the cams from the std cams to the 4.7 HO cams and all have commented that is was clean as a whistle inside. The problem is the condensation inside the filler tube adjacent to the passanger cam cover. it is the coldest point on the engine and the moisture condenses there. You will get a little milky slime, no big deal. Per this thread we dont even know if it has the 5.2, 5.9 or 4.7 but it sounds like the oil has not been changed enough for the short trip driving she does.

 

[Pablo]

VNT - what facts do I need to straighten? While I do agree that the owner did neglect the car, any engine should be able to go 10K/year with two oil changes per year without severely sludging. Is this a good practice given the short trips? Heck no - use a better oil or change more frequently. Not sure why you are challenging me so abruptly but I stand by the facts in this case.

Chrysler has issues with sludge. The 4.7 included.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/dodge_dur_oil.html

http://www.dodge-durango-center.com/dodge-durango-sludge.html

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=122&did=1113

 

[lobo11]

This is severe service in my opinion, severe in the fact that this vehicle rarely reaches operating temps. It should be treated as such and changed every 3K. This is another case of understanding that certain driving conditions are hard on an engine and oil no matter the quality of the lube you are pouring in it. My problem is the knock on a perfectly good oil, this isn't an oil issue, but an owner issue.

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Originally posted by road_rascal:
Both of the manuals for my vehicles state PCV changes at 100K. How long were the oil change intervals?

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According to this Technical Service Bulletin the maximum interval for running a PCV valve is 12 months or 10,000 miles. I change mine at 10,000 and already they are gumming up (can tell because they don't rattle as freely as the new one).

 

[JHZR2]

quote:

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Originally posted by lobo11:
This is severe service in my opinion, severe in the fact that this vehicle rarely reaches operating temps. It should be treated as such and changed every 3K. This is another case of understanding that certain driving conditions are hard on an engine and oil no matter the quality of the lube you are pouring in it. My problem is the knock on a perfectly good oil, this isn't an oil issue, but an owner issue.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo:
any engine should be able to go 10K/year with two oil changes per year without severely sludging. Is this a good practice given the short trips? Heck no - use a better oil or change more frequently.

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Get it out on the highway, as I mentioned above, and the problems ought to go away. Get the water out of the oil, let the oil do its job, and you wont be degrading the oil so quick or sacrificing protection. An oil ought to go 3-5k even on short trips, though if it is most all short trips, 3000 mi OCIs really ought to be done. Sludge may very well be a factor of how she drives the vehicle - hard at startup and onward will be a good way to cause oil and mechanical problems.

JMH

 

[JHZR2]

quote:

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Originally posted by TallPaul:

quote:

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Originally posted by road_rascal:
Both of the manuals for my vehicles state PCV changes at 100K. How long were the oil change intervals?

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According to this Technical Service Bulletin the maximum interval for running a PCV valve is 12 months or 10,000 miles. I change mine at 10,000 and already they are gumming up (can tell because they don't rattle as freely as the new one).

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Ive never changed mine on my 98 ZR2 (my BMW doesnt have one), and it doesnt look dirty or gummed in the slightest, it rattles freely, and doing the finger over test with the engine running shows that it seemingly works great. 50k and looks brand new - seriously. My impression is that theyre just trying to sell more $3.99 PCV valves. is there something else I should cinsider if every time I take it out to check it it looks brand new?

Thanks,

JMH

 

[VNT]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo:
VNT - what facts do I need to straighten? While I do agree that the owner did neglect the car, any engine should be able to go 10K/year with two oil changes per year without severely sludging. Is this a good practice given the short trips? Heck no - use a better oil or change more frequently. Not sure why you are challenging me so abruptly but I stand by the facts in this case.

Chrysler has issues with sludge. The 4.7 included.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/dodge_dur_oil.html

http://www.dodge-durango-center.com/dodge-durango-sludge.html

http://www.autosafety.org/article.php?scid=122&did=1113

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Pablo

These types of links(last one deals with the 2.7 of which 650 of 750,000 engine
have a known/documented sludge issue) are useless complaint oriented webpages which I could dig up on just about any make or model if I looked on the internet.

Here are some links to the 4.7, do a little reading about it, last link shows 4.7 during HO cam install, looks clean to me

http://dodgeram.org/tech/gas/Cammer/4_7_v8.html
http://www.wjjeeps.com/engine.htm
http://www.dodgeboy.net/durango/47ho/pages/PC273048_JPG.htm