my M1 experience in GM 5.3L piston slapper
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Your experience with a 0 weight oil when the manufacture recomended a 5w? Probable your loose engine doesn't like a 0 wt oil. Not the oils fault IMO.
Originally Posted By: KyleBula
[censored] dude, rainy on my sunny day. J/K. well for now I'm happy it ain't knocking like it was. I won't throw anymore $$ at it except I will be putting PP in it @ next oc.
Hey, the bottom line is what you have done made the noise quieter so stick with it. You are truly lucky if the oil helped as it has not for the majority of the poor souls who have GM engines with piston slap. It is great news for you.
[censored] dude, rainy on my sunny day. J/K. well for now I'm happy it ain't knocking like it was. I won't throw anymore $$ at it except I will be putting PP in it @ next oc.
Hey, the bottom line is what you have done made the noise quieter so stick with it. You are truly lucky if the oil helped as it has not for the majority of the poor souls who have GM engines with piston slap. It is great news for you.
FWIW I encountered some extra vavletrain noise in one of my vehicles running the same Mobil AFE, even though my second vehicle was not affected. I switched not too long ago to Mobil EP and both vehicles are as quiet as can be. Thicker oils usually lead to less noise. However, they cannot fix a design flaw, though they might seemingly lessen it.
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
It should be noted that for the most part GM solved the piston slap issue by the 2004/2005 model year. At least for the truck V8's. I seem to recall they used a different/longer sleeve to solve it? Maybe a different piston material /deasign as well? Can't recall the exact details.
Some folks still complain about it in newer vehicles but I have my doubts it is the exact same issue as they are a small group vs what it was when this was a very common issue.
FWIW I had a 2005 Silverado with the HO 5.3L( aluminum block 310 HP version not the standard 295 HP cast iron block )and a 2007(NBS ) with the 315 HP cast 5.3L and I had zero piston slap issues. In my time on the Chevy truck sites I did not read about piston slap being an issue for people from 05 on. 99-03/04 seemed to be the main time line for the problem.
They coated the skirts in Teflon like Ford does.
The reason they slap is the loose piston-to-bore clearance. The blocks are bulk-bored and the pistons are bulk-fitted. There is no matching of pistons to bores. So some engines end up with clearances on the loose side and these ones slap. Some don't, and so they don't.
The issue is compounded by the short pistons with very short skirts as well.
I hadn't heard about the teflon. I am pretty sure they used longer sleeves to help stop it by the 05 model year. I am aware of the clearance and short skirt issue. Posted about it earlier.
Old-style piston:
New-style piston:
I think you mean skirts, not sleeves?
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
It should be noted that for the most part GM solved the piston slap issue by the 2004/2005 model year. At least for the truck V8's. I seem to recall they used a different/longer sleeve to solve it? Maybe a different piston material /deasign as well? Can't recall the exact details.
Some folks still complain about it in newer vehicles but I have my doubts it is the exact same issue as they are a small group vs what it was when this was a very common issue.
FWIW I had a 2005 Silverado with the HO 5.3L( aluminum block 310 HP version not the standard 295 HP cast iron block )and a 2007(NBS ) with the 315 HP cast 5.3L and I had zero piston slap issues. In my time on the Chevy truck sites I did not read about piston slap being an issue for people from 05 on. 99-03/04 seemed to be the main time line for the problem.
They coated the skirts in Teflon like Ford does.
The reason they slap is the loose piston-to-bore clearance. The blocks are bulk-bored and the pistons are bulk-fitted. There is no matching of pistons to bores. So some engines end up with clearances on the loose side and these ones slap. Some don't, and so they don't.
The issue is compounded by the short pistons with very short skirts as well.
I hadn't heard about the teflon. I am pretty sure they used longer sleeves to help stop it by the 05 model year. I am aware of the clearance and short skirt issue. Posted about it earlier.
Old-style piston:
New-style piston:
I think you mean skirts, not sleeves?
Originally Posted By: KyleBula
I bought my 2000 Silverado 5.3L w/102k miles almost 1 year ago. I knew it had the infamous piston slap when I bought it. I have been on a mission to quiet it ever since. The previous owner always used dino.
After some research I finally decided on M1 0w30 green cap and a napa gold filter (I use napa filters on everything).
A lot of people claimed that Green Castrol (which is no longer green, and is sometimes called German Castrol because that is where it is made) helped quiet the slap. I tried it and it didn't help. I bought the GC after they changed the color to brown, so that might be why it didn't work for me.
I have tried many different additives to stop the noise. Nothing worked. GM recommends de-carboning your combustion chamber. Someone makes a foam spray that you squirt in the intake while the engine is running. Actually with the new motors, you need to squirt it in a vacuum line like the brake booster hose or PVC line. The new motors will not run with the air duct removed.
I bought my 2000 Silverado 5.3L w/102k miles almost 1 year ago. I knew it had the infamous piston slap when I bought it. I have been on a mission to quiet it ever since. The previous owner always used dino.
After some research I finally decided on M1 0w30 green cap and a napa gold filter (I use napa filters on everything).
A lot of people claimed that Green Castrol (which is no longer green, and is sometimes called German Castrol because that is where it is made) helped quiet the slap. I tried it and it didn't help. I bought the GC after they changed the color to brown, so that might be why it didn't work for me.
I have tried many different additives to stop the noise. Nothing worked. GM recommends de-carboning your combustion chamber. Someone makes a foam spray that you squirt in the intake while the engine is running. Actually with the new motors, you need to squirt it in a vacuum line like the brake booster hose or PVC line. The new motors will not run with the air duct removed.
Okay. Just spent some time taking out the off topic, bashing and such out of this thread instead of locking it.
If your post is gone, consider this a warning. STAY on TOPIC (hint: Beer, Tundra, Titan are NOT on topic).
Also knock off with the insults between each other.
Bill
If your post is gone, consider this a warning. STAY on TOPIC (hint: Beer, Tundra, Titan are NOT on topic).
Also knock off with the insults between each other.
Bill
zmax might solve this.and help keep rings free.
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Originally Posted By: boxcartommie22
zmax might solve this.and help keep rings free.
Can we get a quick review of what makes Piston Slap in the first place? I recall discussions about Ford V-10 engines where some of them run fine, and some of them develop PS after about 70,000 miles. Identical use, oil, etc.. What brings it on?
zmax might solve this.and help keep rings free.
Can we get a quick review of what makes Piston Slap in the first place? I recall discussions about Ford V-10 engines where some of them run fine, and some of them develop PS after about 70,000 miles. Identical use, oil, etc.. What brings it on?
Originally Posted By: Eddie
Your experience with a 0 weight oil when the manufacture recomended a 5w? Probable your loose engine doesn't like a 0 wt oil. Not the oils fault IMO.
0w does not mean 0 weight. The weight of an oil at operating temperature is the number on the right. The number on the left preceding the w (understood as winter, not weight) is the viscosity of the oil at freezing point or 0 degrees Celsius.
You have made the most common error I see people make when it comes to oil, though I rarely see it made here on BitoG.
Your experience with a 0 weight oil when the manufacture recomended a 5w? Probable your loose engine doesn't like a 0 wt oil. Not the oils fault IMO.
0w does not mean 0 weight. The weight of an oil at operating temperature is the number on the right. The number on the left preceding the w (understood as winter, not weight) is the viscosity of the oil at freezing point or 0 degrees Celsius.
You have made the most common error I see people make when it comes to oil, though I rarely see it made here on BitoG.
The Rod looks different as well...
Originally Posted By: typ901
The Rod looks different as well...
I digress they look a LOT the same, and the lighting on the older Piston is dark on the area with the words. I can not tell a difference between those two except that they are orientated differently, the one has the words facing "up" the other "to the side."
Maybe some engines from 1999 to 2003/2004 dont have slap on the 5.3 because the Pistons arent all that different?
Im thinking an analysis of WHY PS develops is in order, since it appears to be a random thing, and engines in fleets w same engines and oil, some develop it and some dont.
Might make a case for driving habits? Should those with the heavier foot use the thicker Oil?
The Rod looks different as well...
I digress they look a LOT the same, and the lighting on the older Piston is dark on the area with the words. I can not tell a difference between those two except that they are orientated differently, the one has the words facing "up" the other "to the side."
Maybe some engines from 1999 to 2003/2004 dont have slap on the 5.3 because the Pistons arent all that different?
Im thinking an analysis of WHY PS develops is in order, since it appears to be a random thing, and engines in fleets w same engines and oil, some develop it and some dont.
Might make a case for driving habits? Should those with the heavier foot use the thicker Oil?
Quote:
The number on the left preceding the w (understood as winter, not weight) is the viscosity of the oil at freezing point or 0 degrees Celsius.
Wrong. Look up the SAE J300 engine oil viscosity specs. 0W has a viscosity no greater than 6200 centiPoise @ -35°C. 5W is no greater than 6600 cPa @ -30°C. 10W < 7000 CPa @ -25°C, etc.
There were two different noises in these engines. In many cases it was the piston noise. In some other cases it was carbon build up on the piston crown lightly contacting the head (carbon from the excessive oil consumption?). This went away when warm due to the change in dimensions. Both were "normal" and neither was right.
The number on the left preceding the w (understood as winter, not weight) is the viscosity of the oil at freezing point or 0 degrees Celsius.
Wrong. Look up the SAE J300 engine oil viscosity specs. 0W has a viscosity no greater than 6200 centiPoise @ -35°C. 5W is no greater than 6600 cPa @ -30°C. 10W < 7000 CPa @ -25°C, etc.
There were two different noises in these engines. In many cases it was the piston noise. In some other cases it was carbon build up on the piston crown lightly contacting the head (carbon from the excessive oil consumption?). This went away when warm due to the change in dimensions. Both were "normal" and neither was right.
Thought a "W" number was "Resistance to flow" and the only semi-interrelation between a lower "W" number and the number on the right SHOULD/might be better flow/thinner readings up until it equals out at the KV100 number, or KV, on the right. For example: 0W-40 and 10W-40. 0W = better flow; 10W = POSSIBLY more stable. Both at KV100 = a "40" though the 0W MAY be lighter getting UP TO it. Further; "10W" = MAYBE more stable in heat; 0W = might shear faster. Then the curve is, "Quality of base oils used." But why would they be worse in a 10W, what is wrong with ITS Base Oil?
Just an example.
Just an example.
The biggest non-problem ever discussed. Engines run forever with this complaint, just annoying. We have a few of these in service, one with over 400k miles. Slaps like [censored] for about 20-30 seconds then is quiet as a mouse.
Note that GM does not use any coatings on the pistons in its V-8 engines. They simply went to a different skirt design. The pic we have is not indicative of the change. But all manufacturers have had various issues with the new high efficiency piston configurations due to very thin ring lands and short skirts.
In my fleet experience the oil selected makes very little difference.
Note that GM does not use any coatings on the pistons in its V-8 engines. They simply went to a different skirt design. The pic we have is not indicative of the change. But all manufacturers have had various issues with the new high efficiency piston configurations due to very thin ring lands and short skirts.
In my fleet experience the oil selected makes very little difference.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
The biggest non-problem ever discussed. Engines run forever with this complaint, just annoying. We have a few of these in service, one with over 400k miles. Slaps like [censored] for about 20-30 seconds then is quiet as a mouse.
Note that GM does not use any coatings on the pistons in its V-8 engines. They simply went to a different skirt design. The pic we have is not indicative of the change. But all manufacturers have had various issues with the new high efficiency piston configurations due to very thin ring lands and short skirts.
In my fleet experience the oil selected makes very little difference.
Really?
Here is a STOCK piston from an LS2:
And the thread with the tear-down:
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=39998&sid=33955dc14038e0643bc954dc33d40a08
I'm not sure where you are hearing they didn't go to Teflon coated skirts, because they DID.
The biggest non-problem ever discussed. Engines run forever with this complaint, just annoying. We have a few of these in service, one with over 400k miles. Slaps like [censored] for about 20-30 seconds then is quiet as a mouse.
Note that GM does not use any coatings on the pistons in its V-8 engines. They simply went to a different skirt design. The pic we have is not indicative of the change. But all manufacturers have had various issues with the new high efficiency piston configurations due to very thin ring lands and short skirts.
In my fleet experience the oil selected makes very little difference.
Really?
Here is a STOCK piston from an LS2:
And the thread with the tear-down:
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=39998&sid=33955dc14038e0643bc954dc33d40a08
I'm not sure where you are hearing they didn't go to Teflon coated skirts, because they DID.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: HangerHarley
Originally Posted By: typ901
The Rod looks different as well...
I digress they look a LOT the same, and the lighting on the older Piston is dark on the area with the words. I can not tell a difference between those two except that they are orientated differently, the one has the words facing "up" the other "to the side."
Maybe some engines from 1999 to 2003/2004 dont have slap on the 5.3 because the Pistons arent all that different?
Im thinking an analysis of WHY PS develops is in order, since it appears to be a random thing, and engines in fleets w same engines and oil, some develop it and some dont.
Might make a case for driving habits? Should those with the heavier foot use the thicker Oil?
You need to take a closer look. There is a BLACK COATING on the piston skirt on the 2nd piston, and the one I just posted above. This is the "updated" design. The skirts are coated in Teflon (common in the aftermarket, and Ford has been using it for a long time in the Modular engines) which helps to reduce or eliminate the noise caused by piston slap. It is also low-friction, so it apparently has an emissions benefit as well.
Originally Posted By: typ901
The Rod looks different as well...
I digress they look a LOT the same, and the lighting on the older Piston is dark on the area with the words. I can not tell a difference between those two except that they are orientated differently, the one has the words facing "up" the other "to the side."
Maybe some engines from 1999 to 2003/2004 dont have slap on the 5.3 because the Pistons arent all that different?
Im thinking an analysis of WHY PS develops is in order, since it appears to be a random thing, and engines in fleets w same engines and oil, some develop it and some dont.
Might make a case for driving habits? Should those with the heavier foot use the thicker Oil?
You need to take a closer look. There is a BLACK COATING on the piston skirt on the 2nd piston, and the one I just posted above. This is the "updated" design. The skirts are coated in Teflon (common in the aftermarket, and Ford has been using it for a long time in the Modular engines) which helps to reduce or eliminate the noise caused by piston slap. It is also low-friction, so it apparently has an emissions benefit as well.
Remember my expertise is in trucks, not cars. And I seriously doubt that all GM V8 vehicles are using coated pistons. Probably just the Hi-Po versions.
There are two distinct types of trucks, vans and pickups.
I can assure you the vans are WAY behind the pickups in terms of technology, and as late as 05 did NOT have any coatings on their pistons. I have an 06 6.0 V8 block on the bench right now for rebuild, I'll be sure and let you know what kind of pistons it has when I tear it down.
As an example of the vans being the '[censored] stepchildren' note that the weren't even DBW throttles in 06!!! Pickups had been for years.
There are two distinct types of trucks, vans and pickups.
I can assure you the vans are WAY behind the pickups in terms of technology, and as late as 05 did NOT have any coatings on their pistons. I have an 06 6.0 V8 block on the bench right now for rebuild, I'll be sure and let you know what kind of pistons it has when I tear it down.
As an example of the vans being the '[censored] stepchildren' note that the weren't even DBW throttles in 06!!! Pickups had been for years.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Okay. Just spent some time taking out the off topic, bashing and such out of this thread instead of locking it.
If your post is gone, consider this a warning. STAY on TOPIC (hint: Beer, Tundra, Titan are NOT on topic).
Also knock off with the insults between each other.
Bill
It was the OP of this thread who 1st brought up the Nissan Titan I do believe.
Okay. Just spent some time taking out the off topic, bashing and such out of this thread instead of locking it.
If your post is gone, consider this a warning. STAY on TOPIC (hint: Beer, Tundra, Titan are NOT on topic).
Also knock off with the insults between each other.
Bill
It was the OP of this thread who 1st brought up the Nissan Titan I do believe.
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