My Honda/Acura Experiences

[AcuraTech]

Hey All,
My name is Jake and I am an ASE Master Certified Technician who works as a line technician at an Acura dealership. I have been lurking on these boards for awhile but havent had the time to post much. I have to say even as a mechanic that the amount of info on this site is substanitial. I know many fellow mechanics who have worked on cars for quite awhile and are very knowledgable about repair who know very little when it comes to the fluids of a car. One of the best mechanics I know still prescribes to the "Dump a quart of tranny fluid in the engine to clean it" theory. Mostly everyone in the shop is still in the dark about synthetic oil. I am very glad I found this site and can say that I am learning more everyday about vehicle fluids! Anyway on to Hondas. Things that I have experienced.

1) Most of the customers who buy new cars do not have their first oil change until after 5000 miles. I have NEVER seen this cause any problems. Oil burning, incorrect break in, whatever. Have faith in Hondas break in reccomendation.
2) Honda loves to use Moly grease. I assume they use this during engine break in and thats why the factory fill numbers are elevated. We use moly grease on everything from differential extension shafts to brake pad shims.
3) Honda makes some seriously tough engines. I have never seen a Honda motor that blew up for reasons other than outright customer abuse. Some people are consistently overdue for oil changes and the engines dont skip a beat. They will start burning oil from sticky ring packs long before any fatal mechanical damage happens. Most of the blown engines we see are from some kid driving an RSX-Type S or Integra Type R who while trying to downshift from fifth to fourth accidentaly grabs second, lets the clutch out, pegs the tach and BOOM!
4) Honda makes good fluids. I have seen some people on this board question whether the failures of the 99-03 5 spd Auto Trans was fluid related. The answer is a resounding NO! The fluid is great, the design of these transmissions was not. Any special fluids will not save them and may actually make it worse. And the dealer only fluid that they recommend for the rear differentials in the MDX/Pilot? I have no idea what it is. It looks like tranny fluid but Im sure it isnt. Yeah its expensive but I wouldnt chance it with anything else.

These are MY personal opinions and in no way reflect absolute truth so please, take them for what they are.

 

[buster]

Hope you stick around. I prefer to have "real world" testamonials and yours is a perfect example. Can't argue with what you said. I'm sure the engineers that design these cars know what they are talking about.

I do have one question for you, what is your take on the quality issue since Honda/Toyota have been gaining tremendous market share and have been building cars outside of Japan? Some still subscribe to the school of thought that if it leaves Japan, quality will not be good.

 

[AcuraTech]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:

Hope you stick around. I prefer to have "real world" testamonials and yours is a perfect example. Can't argue with what you said. I'm sure the engineers that design these cars know what they are talking about.

I do have one question for you, what is your take on the quality issue since Honda/Toyota have been gaining tremendous market share and have been building cars outside of Japan? Some still subscribe to the school of thought that if it leaves Japan, quality will not be good.

---

I subscribe to the Japan is better thory but I must say North America is closing the gap. There really are no differences in amount of repairs between Japan/USA cars. And we dont really see any problems that we can attribute to sloppy workmanship at the factory. Honda seems to keep a pretty tight quality control leash on all its cars. Across the board however because of the push to continually lighten cars the materials that are used just dont seem as substantial as they used to be. We see more problems with squeeks and rattles than we used to. Mechanically the cars seem to be as good as ever, but we see increasing problems with fit finish and trim.

 

[OCB]

Great to have you here. I look forward to your posts

98 Integra GSR owner

 

[Johnny]

AcuraTech: Very interesting. My son has a 2004 Honda Element and I bought my wife a 2005 Honda Odyssey yesterday. Anything special I should look out for on these two.

 

[OCB]

Ok well here comes my first question for the Acura Tech. What do you suggest for oil in the B series motors. I'm at 100,000K on my GSR. It has seen castrol GTX most of its life. 5/30 winter 10/30 summer. Recently switched to Valvoine Max Life and it seems to work fine. I ran an auto-rx treatment at about 90k and had the cam seal leak. Replaced that. Also replaced the T belt and water pump at the same time The engine runs great!

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[AcuraTech]

Some replys to questions:

Johnny: Havent heard anything bad about Odyssey or Element but the dealership I work at we dont really work on Hondas since the Honda dealer is right down the road. We cant perform warranty work on Hondas and vice versa. However, 2 guys I work with drive Elements and havent had any problems yet.

OCB: Any quality oil will work for the B series. If reasonable drain intervals are followed along with occasional Auto Rx treatment I would expect the engine to outlast the car! Just make sure to have the valves adjusted once in awhile. The 4 cylinders in the Integras were the last of the old tech Honda 4's and I have seen many with over 200K that still run pretty well. Those engines are solid. Word of advice: As the car racks up more miles keep a close eye out for coolant leaks especially the radiator if it is the original. Overheating any Honda engine is the quickest way to destroy it. Honda engines that are even slightly overheated may become damaged. We joke at work that draining all the coolant out of the engine would probably destroy it faster than draining all the oil out.

[ June 04, 2005, 05:21 PM: Message edited by: AcuraTech ]

 

[AcuraTech]

Man, I just thought of some more. I drive a 92 Legend with approx 105K and my girlfriend drives a 2000 Integra with approx 50K and I use Mobil1 5W-30 in both year round with 5K OCI's. Most of our trips are short stop and go so that is what I feel the most comfortable with. Most people dont use Syn, however and I dont really see problems with it as long as they use a reasonable OCI.

As far as the Honda oil filters go, our parts department seems to get mostly the filters that are made by Honeywell/Fram. Randomly however for no rhyme or reason a couple cases of the Filtech filters will show up. The Filtechs definetely seem to be a better filter but they both have the same Part Number so whatever Honda feels like sending us is what we get. If you can find the Filtech filters stock up while you can!

 

[radiometer]

Acura Tech,

I really like seeing someone like yourself, well versed in mechanical matters, join in and contribute. We have a few highly competent contributors here while the bulk of us are learning from them. Your addition will be much appreciated.

 

[Thorn]

Well, sooner or later somebody is going to ask this question, so it may as well be me.

AcuraTech,
What do you think of Honda's recommendation of 5w20 oil? I bought my wife a pre-owned 2004 Pilot a few months ago, and I'm losing sleep over which oil to use.

Any advice? Thanks.

 

[cangreylegend]

OK, so how what do you Acura tech guys do about noisy 1987-1990 Legend V6s. It seems to be a disease amongst these cars that even auto-rx can't resolve.
What's the skinny on this one?

 

[Bror Jace]

Thorn, that question never occurred to me as we've seen so many terrific UOAs from 5W-20 oils.

AcuraTech, I agree with you that Honda engines (of all types, not merely automotive)can tolerate a lot of abuse ... but I run my engines hard sometimes and really like to make sure they are well cared for. It may be more of a 'moral' thing with me as opposed to merely 'Car Care 101.'

I feel the same way about Honda-brand fluids as I do about all other OEM fluids: they are usually competent but they are overpriced and if you know what you are doing and search around enough, you can find better in almost every case.

I didn't know any of the Filtech filters were still around.

One thing you said above is what I've said based on the dozens of mechanics I've known for nearly 30 years:

"I know many fellow mechanics who have worked on cars for quite awhile and are very knowledgable about repair who know very little when it comes to the fluids of a car."

Thanks.

--- Bror Jace

Former Integra and Civic Coupe driver.

 

[ex_MGB]

As for Honda fluids:

1. Use Honda coolant in a Honda. There is no superior product for this application.
2. Use Honda ATF in a Honda. There is no superior product for this application.

For what little brake fluid and power steering fluid one needs, might as well go Honda. The above opinions are absolutely free of charge.

I hope AcuraTech stays away from the 5W-20 fracas as I'd hate to see him driven off the board before we milk some more good info from him

 

[TooSlick]

2) The Amsoil synthetic ATF is 100% PAO based synthetic, it exceeds the Honda Z-1 specifications and it IS a superior fluid for this application.

Do you think Honda/Acura are using an $8.00/quart fluid as the factory fill in hundreds of thousands of transmissions? The stuff they are using is probably a synthetic blend or a cheap, group III "synthetic".

Get a copy of the complete spec sheet for the Honda fluid and compare it to Amsoil for high temp stability, low temp pumpability, volatility, and wear protection under controlled conditions. I think you'll have a change of heart....

Tooslick

 

[ex_MGB]

For use in a Honda, use Honda ATF as the Honda auto-tranny shifts best with Honda ATF. Beyond that, drains and fills are easy. There's no filter in a Honda tranny. This is a case where I'd rather go short ATF CI's on conventional.

Now, I'm leaning towards Amsoil 5W-20 in my Ody engine once I get past break-in...

 

[slickhonda]

I am glad you are here AcuraTech! I have an 02 Civic EX. I have read that the (automatic) 2nd gear clutch sometimes fails. Is there anything I can do to delay or prevent this?

Also on the same car, it calls for 5W-20. I have been using Mobil 1 5W-30 since 5,000. Still get 35mpg. But have check the specs on the Mobil 1 SM rated 10W-30, and the cst @ 40C and 100C aren't that far off (5W-30= 11 and 63, 10W-30= 10.7 and 67) from the 5W-30. Also the 10W-30 is rated ACEA A1/B1/A5/B5, where the 5W-30 is only rated A1/B1. Am I correct in assuming that the 10W-30 is better for extended drains, is more shear stable, and probably will flow just as good? All comments would be appreciated. By the way I just bought 24 quarts @ $3.99/qt at PEPBOYS.

 

[Jay]

quote:

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Originally posted by AcuraTech:

2) Honda loves to use Moly grease. I assume they use this during engine break in and thats why the factory fill numbers are elevated...

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I don't think the elevated moly numbers we've been seeing in the factory-fill oil is from the grease. The amount of moly in 2002-2003 models was ~1000ppm, and that was independent of the engine. In 2004, the amount was reduced to ~500ppm. In the latest factory-fill UOAs, we're seeing a further reduction to about 300ppm.

Honda's website says they use a special break-in oil, and the early factory-fill UOAs substantiated the claim, and identified the ingredient.

 

[Craig]

My '04 Acura TL just had it's 1st birthday. Dynamite automobile
and not one single problem since new.

On the Acura-TL forum there was much discussion about the breakin period and special breaking oil. Seems the break in oil does have more Moly in it.

The oil expert on that board (Road Rage) endorses Amsoil
ATF highly.

Personally I use Amsoil S2000 0W-30 and have just cbange the entire trans to Amsoil ATF.

This is a wonderful car built in Ohio.
Craig

 

[416Rigby]

My Acura TL loves Redline oil, makes the V6 run extremely quiet.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Welcome and thanks for the tips. I really would like a new loaded Element, but I have a coupla years duty in my Audi Avant to go, plus I have a few unfinished building projects too. I do favour Honda over ANY other Asian makes.