My first experience with Amsoil & COLD weather

[medic]

This morning when I started my truck (-18F) it turned over extremely hard. I don't see much of a difference between the Amsoil ASL and dino 5w-30 in this aspect. Now, don't get me wrong - this is only an observation that I think some people may find interesting. I really don't expect any motor oil to behave much different.

Before anybody mentions it - no I don't want to switch to S2K 0w-30 because of the price and the fact that it hasn't impressed me any more than the ASL in UOA's. I will probably have GC in this time next year, but I doubt at -18F I will notice that much of a difference.

BTW, I have a 97 F150 with a 4.6(W). The current oil also has 7,000+ miles on it.

 

[Pablo]

Just curious as to the battery?

That's cold enough to break metal

 

[sbc350gearhead]

I beg to differ.......18 below, is about the only time you will be able to tell a difference between a 5w and a 0w. Pablo is right about the temperature putting a strain on the battery.

 

[7TFord]

....**** cold!! Was -22F here and our 01 Corolla started fine on the GC 0/30. You have a lot more engine to turn over there than I do mind you. I'm not sure though that I can perceive the difference from the Mobil 10/30 I've used in the past. The GC is labeled to be good for unaided starting down to -40. Have never had any experience with Amsoil...not as easy to come by here.

 

[oilboy123]

I don't have a chart in front of me but I remember that a battery has about half the power at -18 F as it would at say 70 F.

Soo if your battery has 800 amps at 70 F it might have only 400 amps at -18 F. Like they are saying you would notice your battery more than you would the oil causing cranking problems.
Oil is not what is making a huge difference as much as the battery is.

 

[Vivisector]

Well I can say, it has been hovering around -40 the last week or 2 and I had no problem at all starting unaided with GC in my Integra. Usually in that weather you get some HARD starts, expecially if you don't have plugged in, but since the GC has been in there haven't had one yet.

 

[Gary Allan]

Can someone clue me in on the term "unaided". Can I assume that this means that you didn't have to use jumper cables ..or perhaps block warmers, overnight chargers, etc?

Or do they install manual hand cranks on Canadian vehicles so the owner can "aid" the cranking process

???

 

[VaderSS]

Keep in mind that cold weather has a direrect influence on battery output.

The actual output loss is about 15% for each 10F drop. At -20F, you would be looking at about 450 amps from a new 650CCA battery or 650 A from a new 850CCA battery.

 

[JohnBrowning]

One thing I would point out is that the gentelmen with the easy starts are all import onwers. My imports have always started easier in all weather especialy cold weather. I have started carborated small blocks in temps below -25 but it has never been easy or quick. Likewise my 97 Buick Lasber does not start as easy as any of the imports I have owned either. The domestic vechiles seem to turn over much slower. I think that starter design might not be as good on domestic vechiles. The gear reduction drive starters on most Imports seem to do a better job in cold weather then their domestic counter parts.

To date it has gotton down to 0F and my Camry starts just as easy as it does at 80F. You can not even tell it is winter. My Buick on the other hand turns over much slower then normal. Both start the first try. My Camry once running is business as normal and purrs like a kitten. THe buick runs rough and really has to idle up for a while before it smooths out. THese are not really that important but it definately points to the level of refinement in design and programing.

Amsoil 5W30 is kind of a gold standard to judge all other Artic type oils buy. Everything is either better or not a good as Amsoil 5W30. I too would have to lean towards battery efficency or some other area. Have you checked the positice cable for corrison at either end? Have you made sure that they are tight? Have you load tested the battery?

[ January 10, 2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]

 

[Robbie Alexander]

quote:

---

Originally posted by oilboy123:
I don't have a chart in front of me but I remember that a battery has about half the power at -18 F as it would at say 70 F.
-*-*

---

Whats the numbers... break it down... find the chart, this sounds interesting!

 

[buster]

I'm using Amsoil 5w-30 right now. I woke up the last two morings and the temps were 3F each moring. The car started great with this oil and it quieted down the valve noise. I'm a big fan of ASL/ATM Amsoil. They have also cut down my consumption. I'm at 4,500 miles and only used 1.4 qts. Good stuff.

 

[VaderSS]

Here is a pretty good rundown on Lead-acid batteries an

quote:

---

Lead-acid batteries reach peak efficiency at 90
degrees F (32 C) As ambient temperature drops, ampere output and recharging
efficiency decline, dropping to 40 percent of rated output at 0 degree F
(-18 degree C). Cold Cranking Ampere (CCA) rating is the best yardstick by
which to measure a battery's capacity. It indicated the discharge rate
(measured in amperes) a fully charged battery will maintain at 0 degrees F
(-17.8 degree C) without terminal voltage dropping below 1.2 volts per
cell. The last major concern regarding battery applications is the
environment in which it is used, specifically the temperatures at which the
battery is required to operate. Batteries and people like approximately the
same temperature range. If the temperature gets too warm, the chemical
reactions within the battery are accelerated and its life may be shortened.
If the battery gets too cold, the chemical reactions are slowed down which
reduces the battery output. In other words, like all chemical processes,
lead acid battery performance is temperature dependent. The available
capacity and maximum current both fall at low temperature, and increase,
although to a lesser degree, at raised temperatures.

---

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jul99/932527336.Eg.r.html

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

John Browning, I generally agree with your domestic vs import statements, but my 84 Olds with a 307 was the quickest starting in cold weather I've ever owned. Even well below zero!

 

[Vivisector]

Well the "unaided" starts I believe people are talking about and was mentioned in my other post was not having car plugged in. Both a block heater and battery blanket help greatly when starting at temperatures around -10 to -45. Just mentioned that since I have put in the GC, I have not needed to plug car in and it still starts like it is 80 outside, no sluggishness or anything.

 

[benjamming]

I have AMSOIL Series 2000 0W30 in my 02 Accord V6 & my 94 Grand Am V6. The Pontiac hesitates for about 2 seconds before it starts. The Honda starts right up. That definetly leads me to believe it is in the battery/starter.

I have been told that if the gas tank is much less that half full, it can cause starting problems. Any truth to this?

 

[Oldswagon]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
One thing I would point out is that the gentelmen with the easy starts are all import onwers. My imports have always started easier in all weather especialy cold weather. I have started carborated small blocks in temps below -25 but it has never been easy or quick. Likewise my 97 Buick Lasber does not start as easy as any of the imports I have owned either. The domestic vechiles seem to turn over much slower. I think that starter design might not be as good on domestic vechiles. The gear reduction drive starters on most Imports seem to do a better job in cold weather then their domestic counter parts.

---

I live in a climate that regularly sees temps of -30F in the dead of winter (like this week). The statement about imports starting better is entirely not true. I have seen just as many no-starts on cold days with imported cars in this area (like my neighbour down the road with a '90 Civic that wouldn't start this week). Usually, starting problems have to do with weak batteries, thick oil, or poor mechanical condition, not vehicle design.

My daily driver is a old Olds Delta 88 with a 307 and a 4bbl Q-jet (mechanical). It fired up just as easily as a warm day with 0W-30 Penzoil Long Life and a 800CCA battery on a couple of -30F starts this week. Hell, my friend with an old beat-up '78 Olds Delta 88 with a 350 4bbl carb, started just fine with 10W30 dino oil unassisted at these temperatures. Did I mention that my father's '76 Chevelle 350 2bbl (2GC), started very easily as well, and he lives in a colder city than I do? Come to think of it, my brother's Cutlass with a 305 4bbl started up easily too and his carb is in need of a rebuild.

A friend of mine is a fleet mechanic for a large fleet of diesel school buses. He is required to be the first mechanic at the yard, usually around 6 AM just incase any of the buses have starting problems (which they always do at cold temps). He lives some distance out of town, so dependable transportation is a must. He drives a 1984 Chevrolet 305 4bbl 1/2 ton truck. Up until last year, it was a 1978 GMC 350 1/2ton 4bbl with almost 300K on it (rust finally killed that old truck). It must be a miracle that his truck starts and brings him to work during the cold winter days.

General Motors has had its cold weather test facility in Kapuskasing, Ontario for some time now. All of its vehicles go through rigourous cold weather tests for start-up, HVAC and drivability at brutally cold temperatures that few areas see. According to an interview with a test engineer on CBC this week, all vehicles are tested in the -40 range for the above three things. However, many vehicles they test will still start at temps colder than -40, however he stated that drivability may suffer until the car warms up. I am sure they must have loved the -45F low temps that Kapuskasing saw the past couple of days.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ToyotaNSaturn:
John Browning, I generally agree with your domestic vs import statements, but my 84 Olds with a 307 was the quickest starting in cold weather I've ever owned. Even well below zero!

---

My wife's Honda has never cranked over all that easily in the cold. When that car was brand new, it was my daily driver, and when I worked midnight shift and tried to start it up first thing in the morning in 0F weather, it often seemed like it wasn't going to start. And this was with Mobil 1 5w30 and less than 5000 miles on the car (so obviously the battery was fresh)

My Firebird on the other hand has always turned over easily, even when I used 10w30 last winter and started it in sub zero weather (and last year I never used the block heater and the battery was getting old too-it's replaced with a new one now)

 

[MNgopher]

I'll also agree with the import idea being a perception thing. Amongst my friends, only two have a problem starting cars in cold weather. One is a Honda, and the other a Nissan. That being said, I've owned domestics that have been tough to start at -20F also.

A lot more has to do with battery maintence and overall maintenance than import vs. domestic.

 

[VaderSS]

I'm afraid that my apples to apples comparisons show my import to domestic being about the same.

'73 Corolla 1200 vs '71 Impala 350, same cold start times, neither easy

'84 Mazda 626 2.0 vs '83 Pontiac Bonneville 5.0 same cold start, medium, say 30-45 seconds of cranking, both run "cold natured" for a few minutes then fine.

'91 Mazda 626 2.2 vs '93 Olds Ciera 3.3 Ciera get the nod, but the Mazda was a manual shift car, both start easy, Ciera displaying NO "cold naturedness"

'02 Accord vs '96 Impala, Impala starts quicker, but neither display ANY "cold naturedness" but the Impala is MUCH more fun, since it gains much more cold HP in relation to what the tires can handle.

 

[TooSlick]

Medic,

If you put the Amsoil synthetic ATF in your transmission and synthetic gear lube in the rear diff, the vehicle will feel a lot less sluggish during the warmup phase ....

The Amsoil 0w-30 would give you about a 9F/5C advantage over their 5w-30 @ 18F:

0w-30 is 5500 Cp @ -35C/-31F

5w-30 is 4990 Cp @ -30C/-22F

S3000, 5w-30 is now 5100 Cp @ -30C/-22F

10w-30 is 3100 Cp @ -25C/-13F, which is basically the same as their two 5w-30's if you do the temp/viscosity conversion.

10w-40 (AMF) is 4500 Cp @ -25C/-13F, so it uses a thicker basestock than the 10w-30 ....

Note: For every 5C drop in temp, the viscosity of a PAO based synthetic will increase by a factor of 1.7, according to Lubrizol. So the Amsoil 10w-30 comes in at approx 5200 Cp @ -30C. They are selling a very similar basestock blend in both these oils, labels aside ....The VI's for the 5w-30 and 10w-30 are both 174 as well, as is the Series 3000, 5w-30 ....

Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
(256) 681-3590