My 2001 Saturn the lemon.

Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
278
Location
Petersburg, West Virginia
The L-300 Saturn has now made it's seventh trip to the dealer since 2001, four on a rollback. The last three times have been to replace a mass air flow sensor. To make a very long story short- I was taking my wife to a mothers day brunch last sunday when our Saturn decided to shut down on a busy highway. The reduced power light came on and I had to drift to a safe place. This is the third time this has happened in the last two years. The dealer just throws on a new mass air flow sensor and a new diagnostic computer, all covered by the extended warranty. Well the warranty will expire in March 2006, then it will be out of my pocket. Plus what really upsets me is how the car just dies in the middle of the road and people are bearing down on you at 60mph. You really feel safe when your wife is operating this car with your three children in the back seat. [Mad] I researched the West Virginia lemon laws today and may press forward with this issue. The sorry thing is that Saturn just keeps throwing new parts on the car but fails to find what is breaking the parts. I am working through customer service to try to resolve this issue first. Funny thing is the first question they ask is who changes the oil in the car. [Roll Eyes]
 
Joined
Apr 11, 2003
Messages
11,284
Location
Spring HIll
Like oil changes have anything to do with the mass airflow sensor...Geez... I'm sorry you're in this predicament. The 2002 & prior L-series had more than their fair share of problems. I wish you well with the Lemon law pursuit. Having your car die on you in traffic is not safe at any speed.
 
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
318
Location
Lomita,Ca.
I would go to a junk yard and get some spare parts and be ready for the next shutdown. Too bad GM has their head up their you know what.The real sad part is they can't figure out why people don't buy their cars anymore.
 
Joined
Jun 22, 2004
Messages
1,779
Location
Central Iowa
Would 4 years old still be covered under the lemon laws? If so, I would say pursue it. There are few things worse than investing that much money in a car that you can't depend on. I have a friend who just traded in a 2002 Pontiac Sunfire. The Pontiac left him stranded 5 times in 3 years-fuel pump went each time. Never got anywhere with the dealer (they just kept putting a new fuel pump on it). GM was no help either.
 

like a rock

Thread starter
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
278
Location
Petersburg, West Virginia
Yes the mass airflow sensor does make the car stall. When the part fails the onboard computer tells the car to shut down to reduced power. I know because I was driving everytime. Real fun to go from 55 to 15 mph with no power steering and power brakes. You can switch off the ignition and the car will restart but you go up the road like a bucking bronco on acid. Gas mileage will go down the pits and fuel will get into the oil. Yes it's that great g.m. feeling. [Mad]
 
Joined
May 6, 2003
Messages
3,031
Location
Florida
Sorry to here about your issues with GM. This board it seems is littered with problems from the 3. [I dont know]
 
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
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36,723
Location
ME
Does this car have throttle-by-wire? Sounds like the fail-safe is simply idling. Used to be, if you got enough air into the motor, the 02 would scream lean, the TPS would say "open" and the computer would blame the MAF and ignore it so you'd keep going. Seems the comptuer logic has swung in a stupid direction.
 
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
10,910
Location
Nokesville, VA
quote:
Originally posted by Virtuoso: A Mass-airflow sensor failure should not cause your car to stall.
Both of my Ford cars ('88 and '96) will start and run with the mass-airflow sensor unplugged. I've no idea if they'll stall should the sensor fail with the engine running, but they should start right back up if they do. EDIT: I've actually driven a 1995 Ford vehicle with the mass-airflow sensor unplugged and it ran pretty well. No bucking or jerking.
 
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
188
Location
so cal
I would say sell it before the warranty ends. Buy a Honda, Toyota or Nissan and be happy. BTW Honda MAP sensers are very reliable that is why honda does not use a MAF. Dan
 
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
10,910
Location
Nokesville, VA
quote:
Originally posted by DR Racing: BTW Honda MAP sensers are very reliable that is why honda does not use a MAF.
Ford switched over to MAF from MAP years ago for emissions reasons..nothing to do with reliability of MAP sensors. (Not that I'm aware of any reliability issues with either as far as Ford is concerned). In fact, I switched my Ford Mustang 5.0 from MAP to MAF so it could handle any future modifications better. Throttle response was also slightly improved by the change.
 
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
9,448
Location
USA
You can force them to do a buy back! You will probably have to go through the third party arbitration process firtst. Basicly if they have to repair or replace the same parts or system on your car under warranty it is basicly a classic lemon issue and byback situation. I have heard of cars being bought back becasue they had to replace the radiator cap two many times times. GM legal would call us up from time to time to pick our brains on some issues!
 
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
10,910
Location
Nokesville, VA
If the same part has been replaced multiple times then it should lead someone with a functioning brain to the conclusion that there is something that is making the part fail, and continued replacements of the part will not resolve the problem. However, functioning brains are rare at the dealerships.
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2004
Messages
432
Location
central Georgia
This is a complete and total shot in the dark, but: Does this car have the 3.0 liter narrow-angle V6? I think that engine was made in Great Britain by Vauxhall and shared by Saab [although turbocharged] during those years. The reason I ask is my mother had a Saab that would do that, and they traced the problem to a loose pin in a wiring harness leading to the ECU. After that, it never happened again. Other than that, we had really good luck with that engine [and beat the heck out of it]. Hope this is in some way helpful.
 
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
2,513
Location
Richmond, VA
quote:
Originally posted by terminaldegree: This is a complete and total shot in the dark, but: Does this car have the 3.0 liter narrow-angle V6? I think that engine was made in Great Britain by Vauxhall and shared by Saab [although turbocharged] during those years. The reason I ask is my mother had a Saab that would do that, and they traced the problem to a loose pin in a wiring harness leading to the ECU. After that, it never happened again. Other than that, we had really good luck with that engine [and beat the heck out of it]. Hope this is in some way helpful.
I was just getting ready to suggest go to a good auto-electric shop. A good mechanic should be able to fix this problem. [Cheers!]
 
Joined
May 7, 2004
Messages
10,910
Location
Nokesville, VA
I was thinking it might be a loose connection, or, if the MAF is actually being damaged somehow, a short to 12V or ground (whichever can cause damage to that particular MAF).
 
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