Has anyone ever heard of this company and the quality of their products?
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MTP Industries Engine Additive
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Most additives making such claims do a real good job of seperating the purchaser from their money.There are some booster type additives which help if their benefits are needed.
It has PTFE... I would think that's a negative. But no, I've never heard of them nor have I used their products.
Snake oil, expensive snake oil actually, is their nickname. It may not do any good to your engine but it does do big damage to your wallet, for $53 per quart plus shipping.
"It has PTFE... I would think that's a negative."
Much of what we think we know about PTFE dates back to when Slick 50 became a household term. Have there been any studys done in this century to confirm that what we think we know about the evils of PTFE is actually true?
Much of what we think we know about PTFE dates back to when Slick 50 became a household term. Have there been any studys done in this century to confirm that what we think we know about the evils of PTFE is actually true?
Originally Posted By: TurboJim
Much of what we think we know about PTFE dates back to when Slick 50 became a household term. Have there been any studys done in this century to confirm that what we think we know about the evils of PTFE is actually true?
Basically there have been no studies demonstrating any benefit to teflon in motor oil.
It's particulate matter which either gets picked up by the oil filter or gums something else up.
It can't go into solution, and it can't be reduced to particles small enough to avoid being filtered.
That seems to wrap it up.
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Much of what we think we know about PTFE dates back to when Slick 50 became a household term. Have there been any studys done in this century to confirm that what we think we know about the evils of PTFE is actually true?
Basically there have been no studies demonstrating any benefit to teflon in motor oil.
It's particulate matter which either gets picked up by the oil filter or gums something else up.
It can't go into solution, and it can't be reduced to particles small enough to avoid being filtered.
That seems to wrap it up.
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After I discovered this website by accident some years back and I discovered so many people here had tried Auto-RX and that Auto-RX had even been tested I tried Auto-RX myself and it seemed to work for me.
But all of this other stuff-I don't believe in 99.9% of it. I do believe in Auto-RX but even when it comes to Auto-RX a person could drive a car or truck a very long way with decent quality motor oil and reasonable OCIs and never have a problem and never use any engine cleaner, friction reducer, or whatever.
But all of this other stuff-I don't believe in 99.9% of it. I do believe in Auto-RX but even when it comes to Auto-RX a person could drive a car or truck a very long way with decent quality motor oil and reasonable OCIs and never have a problem and never use any engine cleaner, friction reducer, or whatever.
Found on MTP website - "...(The) PTFE particles are so small they easily flow through an oil filter and engine without ever being trapped."
It seems common practice now to use particle sizes smaller than in the days when Slick 50, and similar products first came on the scene.
Another reference to these smaller sizes of PTFE can be found on SynLube's website - " The sub-micronic particles of Graphite, PTFE and MoS2 are colloidally suspended in a mixture of synthetic liquid lubricants."
I'm still looking for some current data to support the use or avoidance of PTFE additives.
It seems common practice now to use particle sizes smaller than in the days when Slick 50, and similar products first came on the scene.
Another reference to these smaller sizes of PTFE can be found on SynLube's website - " The sub-micronic particles of Graphite, PTFE and MoS2 are colloidally suspended in a mixture of synthetic liquid lubricants."
I'm still looking for some current data to support the use or avoidance of PTFE additives.
Originally Posted By: TurboJim
Found on MTP website - "...(The) PTFE particles are so small they easily flow through an oil filter and engine without ever being trapped."
The sole and only manufacturer of Teflon - Dupont - disavows its use as an additive in motor oils without any qualification whatsoever.
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Found on MTP website - "...(The) PTFE particles are so small they easily flow through an oil filter and engine without ever being trapped."
The sole and only manufacturer of Teflon - Dupont - disavows its use as an additive in motor oils without any qualification whatsoever.
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Check the FTC website someday. Several companies that made various oil additives and supplements were fined by the FTC. You will find some names you probably know.
Only maker of a additive that contains PTFE that never made the list as far as I know was the company that makes Tufoil. They were never fined apparently. Does that mean their product is safe? I don't know. Does that mean they are too small and fit under the radar? I don't know.
What you can do is buy a motor oil that has a lot of moly in it-like Redline. Moly in the correct chemical composition is already in the oil. Makes sense to me.
Only maker of a additive that contains PTFE that never made the list as far as I know was the company that makes Tufoil. They were never fined apparently. Does that mean their product is safe? I don't know. Does that mean they are too small and fit under the radar? I don't know.
What you can do is buy a motor oil that has a lot of moly in it-like Redline. Moly in the correct chemical composition is already in the oil. Makes sense to me.
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Check the FTC website someday. Several companies that made various oil additives and supplements were fined by the FTC. You will find some names you probably know.
Only maker of a additive that contains PTFE that never made the list as far as I know was the company that makes Tufoil. They were never fined apparently. Does that mean their product is safe? I don't know. Does that mean they are too small and fit under the radar? I don't know.
What you can do is buy a motor oil that has a lot of moly in it-like Redline. Moly in the correct chemical composition is already in the oil. Makes sense to me.
I have successfully used Tufoil for some years now in both my cars (BMW520 and Ford Mondeo 2.0, European -95 models. Both cars has gone just under 200 000 Km). In Tufoil there are some very small particle sized PTFE (and moly) as I have seen on the Tufoil home page.
At this excellent forum there are a lot of sceptics regarding oil additives which contain PTFE as I have experienced earlier.
On my BMW the oil filter are of the canister type, I can then easily check the oil filter visually for particles/clogging/. My oil filter locks very good (no clogging) when I replace it at each oil shift.
Regarding particle size, I think even moly is “dangerous” in motor oil if the particle size is large enough. I believe particle size matter.
I have also earlier done a Auto RX treatment on my BMW. I then regularly checked the oil filter during the clean and rinse cycles but the filter was not dirtier than earlier when I had used only tufoil. May be that the Tufoil had cleaned the engine prior to this Auto RX treatment?
Now I only use Tufoil in my cars (and in the lawn cutter and snow blower)
Check the FTC website someday. Several companies that made various oil additives and supplements were fined by the FTC. You will find some names you probably know.
Only maker of a additive that contains PTFE that never made the list as far as I know was the company that makes Tufoil. They were never fined apparently. Does that mean their product is safe? I don't know. Does that mean they are too small and fit under the radar? I don't know.
What you can do is buy a motor oil that has a lot of moly in it-like Redline. Moly in the correct chemical composition is already in the oil. Makes sense to me.
I have successfully used Tufoil for some years now in both my cars (BMW520 and Ford Mondeo 2.0, European -95 models. Both cars has gone just under 200 000 Km). In Tufoil there are some very small particle sized PTFE (and moly) as I have seen on the Tufoil home page.
At this excellent forum there are a lot of sceptics regarding oil additives which contain PTFE as I have experienced earlier.
On my BMW the oil filter are of the canister type, I can then easily check the oil filter visually for particles/clogging/. My oil filter locks very good (no clogging) when I replace it at each oil shift.
Regarding particle size, I think even moly is “dangerous” in motor oil if the particle size is large enough. I believe particle size matter.
I have also earlier done a Auto RX treatment on my BMW. I then regularly checked the oil filter during the clean and rinse cycles but the filter was not dirtier than earlier when I had used only tufoil. May be that the Tufoil had cleaned the engine prior to this Auto RX treatment?
Now I only use Tufoil in my cars (and in the lawn cutter and snow blower)
"The sole and only manufacturer of Teflon - Dupont - disavows its use as an additive in motor oils without any qualification whatsoever."
Teflon is DuPont's trade name for PTFE. Kinetic Chemicals patented it in 1941 and registered the Teflon trademark in 1944. DuPont later acquired Kinetic Chemicals.
"PTFE can be produced in a number of ways, depending on the particular traits desired for the end product. Many specifics of the process are proprietary secrets of the manufacturers." - Source howmade.com
Teflon is DuPont's trade name for PTFE. Kinetic Chemicals patented it in 1941 and registered the Teflon trademark in 1944. DuPont later acquired Kinetic Chemicals.
"PTFE can be produced in a number of ways, depending on the particular traits desired for the end product. Many specifics of the process are proprietary secrets of the manufacturers." - Source howmade.com
The reality is that Dupont refused to sell it for use as an engine additive. They were sued and lost the suit and now must sell it to anyone, but they buyer cannot call it Teflon, and must only refer to it as PFTE. Dupont also determined that it had no real benefit as an engine oil additive. Can we say Snake Oil?
On the down side it seems we all have some PFTE in our bodies and no one knows how bad that is.
On the down side it seems we all have some PFTE in our bodies and no one knows how bad that is.
Originally Posted By: Mystic
Only maker of a additive that contains PTFE that never made the list as far as I know was the company that makes Tufoil. They were never fined apparently. Does that mean their product is safe?
If you go to their website, they avoid all the claims that got everyone else in trouble.
http://www.tufoil.com
1 - they do not claim to plate or coat the surfaces with PTFE
2 - although they claim their oil is slippier, they do not actually attribute that to the PTFE
3 - they claim their PTFE particles are not filtered out, but again avoid saying that the PTFE particles do anything
My guess would be that Tufoil continues some friction modifier, possibly a waxy ester along the lines of:
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/engine_biotech.html
and the PTFE is just along for the ride.
.
Only maker of a additive that contains PTFE that never made the list as far as I know was the company that makes Tufoil. They were never fined apparently. Does that mean their product is safe?
If you go to their website, they avoid all the claims that got everyone else in trouble.
http://www.tufoil.com
1 - they do not claim to plate or coat the surfaces with PTFE
2 - although they claim their oil is slippier, they do not actually attribute that to the PTFE
3 - they claim their PTFE particles are not filtered out, but again avoid saying that the PTFE particles do anything
My guess would be that Tufoil continues some friction modifier, possibly a waxy ester along the lines of:
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/engine_biotech.html
and the PTFE is just along for the ride.
.
Tufoil's claim to fame is that it was listed in the Guinness Book of World Records in 1996 as being the "worlds most efficient lubricant". They claim in the FAQ section of their website that "Tufoil engine lubricant has been tested by the U.S Government at the National Bureau of Standards. Their results prove that the surface friction of Tufoil (.029), makes it the most slippery substance known to man!"
Although I couldn't find a reference to in on their website I believe the makers of Tufoil found that PTFE + moly has a lower coefficient of friction than PTFE alone.
I've used Tufoil several times and could never feel a difference when using it.
Although I couldn't find a reference to in on their website I believe the makers of Tufoil found that PTFE + moly has a lower coefficient of friction than PTFE alone.
I've used Tufoil several times and could never feel a difference when using it.
Originally Posted By: TurboJim
Although I couldn't find a reference to in on their website I believe the makers of Tufoil found that PTFE + moly has a lower coefficient of friction than PTFE alone.
Which demonstrates it's the moly that reduces friction.
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Although I couldn't find a reference to in on their website I believe the makers of Tufoil found that PTFE + moly has a lower coefficient of friction than PTFE alone.
Which demonstrates it's the moly that reduces friction.
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For those interested, MPT Industries (not MTP), was started by an ex-Tufoil employee.
MPT was subsequently sued by Tufoil for stealing their proprietary data in creating their "new" formulations - although I never heard the outcome.
MPT was subsequently sued by Tufoil for stealing their proprietary data in creating their "new" formulations - although I never heard the outcome.
MolaKule
Staff member
If you read the Grease whitepapers, you will see that PTFE particles are only useful in grease as a thickener or in gear lube as a sound reducer.
It would also be helful if you provided a link to any specificatios or Product Data Sheets, but no advertising.
It would also be helful if you provided a link to any specificatios or Product Data Sheets, but no advertising.
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The only product data sheet on their website is the MSDS: http://www.mptindustries.com/msds/MPTET_msds.pdf
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