Motul 300V 5W30 - VAG disel engines

[hajes]

Hi, I am David and I like to drive Colin McRae style. I used to do amateur karting and I am fan of rally and hillclimbs. Who would resist mountain roads of Austria and drive FRC (Family Racing Cup) style. My question is...so far I've used on my Skoda Fabia Liqui Moly 5W30. I push it hard and engine gets lots of abuse. I am an engineering so don't worry about proper car maintenance. I never put turkey in cold oven ;-) I recently purchased Skoda Octavia II 2.0TDi 103kW with DPF...VW 505.01 norm if I am not mistaken. I did some research and found out that ester based oils take more abuse than "normal" oils. I wonder if anyone uses Motul 300V 5W30 in VAG diesel engines? I didn't find any specification on Motul webpage. I found in some forums that some guys use above by mentioned oil on race track days and also on daily use. My question is - should I stick with decent oil from Motorex or Liqui Moly and change it after 5000km (instead of 15000km - so far my oil change was at 10000km) or is it worthy to invest in racing oil? Suggestion appreciated. My objective is to reduce wear of engine and improve proper lubrication. My Fabia used to have 225k km on ODO meter...now is almost 300k and it is slowly dying after aggressive racing style driving.

 

[dparm]

Motul 300V doesn't have any manufacturer approvals. It is a "boutique" oil designed for the aftermarket -- race teams, specifically. I think you could use it in that car and do quite well. 300V is a stout oil. Best advice I can give is to use it for 7500km and then have it analyzed.

 

[gyrfalcon]

Originally Posted By: dparm

Best advice I can give is to use it for 7500km and then have it analyzed.

Completely agree. No idea who does that on your prison colony though. :P

 

[hajes]

thanks for reply. I've seen many guys talking about analysis - no idea what is it for. Will have to do some research

 

[gyrfalcon]

Originally Posted By: hajes

thanks for reply. I've seen many guys talking about analysis - no idea what is it for. Will have to do some research

Austria, Czech Republic... Sorry I thought you were from Australia. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ does oil analysis. You can see an example here: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/report-explanation.php If you can't find anyone local, they can do it if you can ship them an oil sample.

 

[hajes]

Thanks sir, I live in central Europe. Sending samples to US will cost me more than a new oil. I will check out if anything similar is in Germany or Austria

 

[hajes]

UPDATE I've found a similar company in Germany. A sample report I'm not an expert but their report looks similar to Blackstone - what do you think?

 

[gyrfalcon]

Originally Posted By: hajes

UPDATE I've found a similar company in Germany. A sample report I'm not an expert but their report looks similar to Blackstone - what do you think?

Looks better than what Blackstone provides! Although I'm not sure if it's cheaper. Couldn't quite understand the pricing structure.

 

[hajes]

I don't understand it either :-D I will try and see what happen.

 

[hajes]

For diesel engine oil is suggested a black kit - price 62€ (about 80USD)

 

[riggaz]

If you have a 2.0TDI with a DPF then you need 5w-30 VW507.00. The Motul 300V Power Racing 5w-30 is not compatible with your CAT or DPF so I wouldn't use it if I were you. Stick with the 5w-30 VW507.00 oils and change it every 5000 - 10000 miles

 

[hajes]

Originally Posted By: riggaz

If you have a 2.0TDI with a DPF then you need 5w-30 VW507.00. The Motul 300V Power Racing 5w-30 is not compatible with your CAT or DPF so I wouldn't use it if I were you. Stick with the 5w-30 VW507.00 oils and change it every 5000 - 10000 miles

Motul "Other applications : Gasoline or Diesel engines, turbocharged, direct injection and catalytic converters." I've seen guys on Audi forum using it for track days and also on daily use. No complains or failures. Od course it doesn't match any manufacturers specification because it is racing oil - exactly what I need. High reving, overloading of engine - daily use racing style. Even at normal grandpa style driving - I never go over 10k km oil change. VAG cars are especially sensitive for clean oil, unless you have enough money to change turbo very often. I am going to pay for oil analysis on my old Fabia abused for two years on Liqui Moly Diesel High Tech 5W30 oil. I wonder what we'll find out All I see is that my old Fabia engine was slowly dying under heavy load.

 

[hajes]

Found an other winner Millers Oils CFS 5W-40 NT 5l - allegedly the highest quality racing oil in the world. Exceeds all specification of API SM, CF a ACEA A3/B4. This guys are more transparent and describe this oil for tuned stock engines and hard core driving or racing. Looks like I've got a winner.

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: hajes

Millers Oils CFS 5W-40 NT 5l - allegedly the highest quality racing oil in the world.

Alleged by whom? I guess this is what must be in every Formula 1 engine then, right?

 

[gyrfalcon]

Originally Posted By: hajes

Exceeds all specification of API SM, CF a ACEA A3/B4.

For a newer diesel engine I believe you want to use the ACEA C grade oils (Catalyst Compatibility Oils). Not the A/B grade oils.

 

[hajes]

Common sense...what engine oil has to do with CAT and DPF? Oil doesn't come through any of these parts - as far as I know only exhaust gases affect them. Basically, it is matter of fuel rather than engine oil, right?

 

[hajes]

Originally Posted By: weasley

Originally Posted By: hajes

Millers Oils CFS 5W-40 NT 5l - allegedly the highest quality racing oil in the world.

Alleged by whom? I guess this is what must be in every Formula 1 engine then, right?

They claim it :-D

 

[jayg]

Originally Posted By: hajes

Common sense...what engine oil has to do with CAT and DPF? Oil doesn't come through any of these parts - as far as I know only exhaust gases affect them. Basically, it is matter of fuel rather than engine oil, right?

From motoringassist.com: All engines burn oil but certain anti-wear additives, such as sulphated ash, phosphorus and sulphur (SAPS), build up within the DPF and cannot be removed, even by regeneration. Therefore, most manufacturers that equip their cars with Diesel Particulate Filters insist on low SAPS oil being used. Failure to refill or top-up an engine with the correct low SAPS oil will cause premature clogging of the DPF. Also any EGR systems can be effected by it as well. My recommendation, do more reading and use Castrol SLX Gold 5w30 for 10k miles with an OEM filter.

 

[hajes]

Changing oil at 16k km interval is quick and painful suicide for engine - especially for VAG cars ;-) If I want to keep within VW specification - then it doesn't matter what oil you buy because they are all same.

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: hajes

Common sense...what engine oil has to do with CAT and DPF? Oil doesn't come through any of these parts - as far as I know only exhaust gases affect them. Basically, it is matter of fuel rather than engine oil, right?

Wrong. As mentioned above, it is inevitable that some engine oil will be burnt as part of the combustion process, since there is engine oil on the cylinders and in the piston rings. This happens even in a perfectly healthy engine. In this engine oil are a number of additives that contain chemical elements that can cause problems with exhaust emissions devices. Metallic elements such as calcium, magnesium and zinc will be oxidised to their oxides, which are solids. These particles (call 'ash') will flow down the exhaust along with the fuel combustion products. The DPF filters all particles from the exhaust stream, including the fuel-derived carbonaceous particles ('soot') and the oil-derived ash. Eventually the DPF gets filled and the car's ECU can 'regenerate' it by overheating the DPF. This burns away the carbon-based soot, but the metallic ash particles can not be burnt away, so stay in the DPF. Over time these accumulate and the DPF becomes permanently blocked. Lower ash oils extend DPF life (and also allow the OEMs to fit smaller, cheaper, lighter DPFs). With catalytic converters, the problem is largely phosphorus, which is found in the ZDDP anti-wear additive (which is found is pretty much all engine oils). The phosphorus 'poisons' the catalyst, deactivating its ability to catalyse the reduction of harmful exhaust gases to less harmful ones. EGRs are much less affected, typically facing problems with deposits which can come from oil or fuel. The oil-derived deposits tend to come from thermal and oxidative instability rather than specifically from ash-derived species.