Motorcraft vs. Pennzoil YB 5w-20

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: modularv8
Ford claims to its dealers that the formulation is unique and will not honor warranty claims by dealers that don't fill 5w20 from Motorcraft. Ford doesn't take this stance with 5w30.


I'd like to see some documentation on this. All oil formulations are "unique". If a 5W20 oil meets Ford's spec, I highly doubt they wouldn't honor it. My truck started it's life with dealer service only and they used QS bulk 5W20. I had a TSB issue with oil seeping from a head gasket (excess metal flashing between the head/block) and it was repaired under warranty.

Regarding oil consumption, my truck uses no oil at all with 5-6K changes on any 5W20 I've used. I just pulled about 11-12K lbs over the Rockies on a cross country trip using NAPA conv. 5W20. She did fine. I have noticed that 5W30 runs a little quieter, but I can only tell with the hood open. I don't think a non-auto person would notice.

These mod motors are like rocks. This is my first Ford (former GM guy) and it kicks bum. My next truck will be a Superduty and I hope Ford has a winner with it's 6.7L Scorpion. If not, I'll check the V10 box when I buy.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Jakeday had a good question. Why would Pennzoil NOT make good advertising use of any synthetic in the YB?


Because it does not MATTER!

 

[modularv8]

Agreed. The article is called "Why Motorcraft?" Independent Lubricant Manufacturers Association Vol.51 No.12. I have a University of Texas subscription to almost every journal imaginable, but I couldn't find this on Internet to post a link. The article is basically a grip by oil manufacturers not being able to sell bulk 5w20 to the dealerships because they claim Ford "strong arms" dealerships into only buying from Motorcraft. It is only in regard to 5w20, but the dealer can buy bulk from other suppliers with any other weight. The article claims Ford's/Motorcraft's answer is that 5w20 is a "special" fuid and won't warranty any claims that don't use Motorcraft.

Personally, I think Ford did all their testing with their formulated MC5w20 so they know what to expect in terms of performance and are not wanting to take chances with other sources, CYA.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
The article is basically a grip by oil manufacturers not being able to sell bulk 5w20 to the dealerships because they claim Ford "strong arms" dealerships into only buying from Motorcraft. It is only in regard to 5w20, but the dealer can buy bulk from other suppliers with any other weight. The article claims Ford's/Motorcraft's answer is that 5w20 is a "special" fuid and won't warranty any claims that don't use Motorcraft.


I think that this is probably a "morphed distortion". Ford had substantial conditions attached to the use of 5w-20 by the EPA. Multiple assurances that the fluid would be used and available. I'm sure that this was a tremendous capital expense in co-development with the blender to offset the costs. That (probably, my speculation) continued (or initial) assured throughput of product probably represented the other half of the cooperative.

There was one point where WM pulled MC off of the shelves since dealers were paying more for bulk 5w-20 than they could acquire it in alternative outlets. The product reappeared and I suspect that Conoco-Philips found that insisting on the exclusive dealer outlet produced lower throughput than allowing the dealers to source as they saw fit ...or perhaps a realignment of dealer bulk pricing.

 

[modularv8]

I'm sure there many factors in play. But getting back to the original question Penn YB or MC 5w20. I just learned that they both use the exact same base stock. They have a 50/50 joint venture in Excel Paralubes. It is a plant in Lake Charles, LA that produces their base stocks for group II/III lubricants under license from Chevron's hydrocracking process.

http://www.chevron.com/products/sitelets/baseoils/docs/nlgi_10-99.pdf
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-19310615.html

Motorcraft still has the Group III component though. But both seem to perform essentially the same in UOA (top notch). Also noticed they both use the same amount of Boron additive, though I know they blend to their own formulation. Read that the Group II+ base stock is ideal for additive package because of its full saturation.

Wonder if the real question should be whether there is any performance difference between these and the more expensive synthetic (non-PAO) formulations. Seems to me that we will never notice a difference in a standard drain interval (~5k miles oci) by UOA. Yet I can get MC for $2.30/quart and a synthetic (non-PAO based) ~$5.70/quart and they produce the same result.

 

[Johnny]

Your reading old news. When Shell bought Pennzoil they had to sell their interest in Excel Paralubes. I believe Pennzoil/Shell's part was sold to Flint Hills.

 

[modularv8]

Right you are, my bad for not checking on it.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: modularv8
Ford claims to its dealers that the formulation is unique and will not honor warranty claims by dealers that don't fill 5w20 from Motorcraft. Ford doesn't take this stance with 5w30.



Wouldn't this violate the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act?

 

[DieselTech]

Yes it would expecially if the competeing product had the Cert on the bottle from ford

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
Quote:
Ford claims to its dealers that the formulation is unique and will not honor warranty claims by dealers that don't fill 5w20 from Motorcraft. Ford doesn't take this stance with 5w30.


Wouldn't this violate the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act?

I'd think so. MC 5w20 is good oil that I've used for some time. But, voiding the warranty for using another 5w20 that meets specs, I don't think so. It's been posted here before that the factory fill is Formula Shell or similar and not MC syn blend. Also, some Ford dealers use a bulk 5w20 that is not MC in there oil change bays.

 

[Big Jim]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Originally Posted By: modularv8
Ford claims to its dealers that the formulation is unique and will not honor warranty claims by dealers that don't fill 5w20 from Motorcraft. Ford doesn't take this stance with 5w30.


I'd like to see some documentation on this. All oil formulations are "unique". If a 5W20 oil meets Ford's spec, I highly doubt they wouldn't honor it. My truck started it's life with dealer service only and they used QS bulk 5W20. I had a TSB issue with oil seeping from a head gasket (excess metal flashing between the head/block) and it was repaired under warranty.

Regarding oil consumption, my truck uses no oil at all with 5-6K changes on any 5W20 I've used. I just pulled about 11-12K lbs over the Rockies on a cross country trip using NAPA conv. 5W20. She did fine. I have noticed that 5W30 runs a little quieter, but I can only tell with the hood open. I don't think a non-auto person would notice.

These mod motors are like rocks. This is my first Ford (former GM guy) and it kicks bum. My next truck will be a Superduty and I hope Ford has a winner with it's 6.7L Scorpion. If not, I'll check the V10 box when I buy.


I think I can shed some light on this topic. I have been out of Ford dealerships for over five years and things could have changed (but I don't think so).

Ford requires that Ford products be used for all Ford paid services and repairs. They will not knowingly pay for another brand of oil if they are paying the bill. Ford does check to see if the quantity of purchased Motorcraft oil at least meets the quantity reflected on warranty claims. When a dealer is using something other than Motorcraft in bulk, Ford checks the practice of the technicians to actually use Motorcraft packaged goods or if they fill from the bult tank.

I also know that Ford strongly encourages dealers to use Motorcraft oils. Ford also requires dealers that are part of their dealer development scheme (where Ford has made loans to dealers to help them get started) to use only Motorcraft oils.

I was NOT aware of any cases where Ford will not pay warranty claims if the dealer uses other oils for customer paid services and repairs. I have worked at dealers that had Motorcraft and another brand of oil in bulk and as long as they used Motorcraft on any Ford paid services and repairs there were no problems on collecting on warranty claims.