Most Sludge Resistant Oil?

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

TS, one of many question I have in your situation is what's the oil sump capacity of those engines?

 

[TooSlick]

Bob, Both these engines hold approx 5.0-5.25 quarts of oil including what's in the oil filter, and if anything the Camry V-6 is running at lower rpms. I think the real answer on the Camry is that you and Monarch are both right. There are several interrelated design features of this engine that make it very tough on oil: 1) The shearing due to the valvetrain design - without a doubt this happens - even with the best PAO/Ester synthetics 2) The high cylinder head temps and the design of the head itself 3) An inadequate PCV system that allows the combustion by-products to accumulate in the crankcase. I don't think you'd see this much oil degradation from any one of these things alone, but the combined effect is bad news

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

TS, I along with the engineers and master mechanics do not agree with the pcv problem. Heat and valve train, yes. I think you'll find that the PCV concerns are the after effects of the other two original problems thus given you that. As pointed out before, many engines have no problem provided they don't allow the oil to shear out and start to coke up the engine. That's why you'll find that the smaller engines in tighter places have more tendency to coke up before a pickup truck would with higher sump capacity.

 

[monarch]

Personally, I don't agree with the following explanations: "shearing due to the valvetrain design" "smaller engines in tighter places" "small oil sump capacity" "change to SJ oil in 1996" Take my puny 3 quart oil pan capacity 1989 Corolla, it has all of the above, but this high revving 4A-F engine is famous for standing up to 10,000+ mile dino oil drain intervals. In fact, the owners manual states to change the oil and filter every 10,000 miles under normal driving conditions and 5,000 miles under severe condition !! I have seen the insides of many of these popular '88-'96 4A / 7A series motors in auto wrecking yards with 200,000 - 410,000 miles on them and never saw sludge.

 

[buster]

Very interesting. Good posts everyone. I will be interested in seeing what Amsoil determines if the rumor was true that they bought these engines to see how there oil holds up. I had an 87 corolla and put 300,000 miles on it with regular oil, changing it every 3k. With my 01, i now have 97K using Amsoil and I am going to change it every 5k. The jury is still out on this one.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Buster, With the maintainence you are doing with that oil, you wont have any problem with that. It mainly boiled down to the older SJ oil at and over 4k drains that caused the problem.

 

[Pablo]

I'm compiling my own list of possible reasons for Toyota sludging - some seem remote - (PCV (monarch), excess fuel (Auto Digest web site), too COLD(Lubes 'n Greases) - others seem reasonable in combination... BUT MY QUESTION IS: I have seen some (little bit old) statements from Toyota about how they will make a "one time good" for folks that maybe overextended their petroleum oil changes, etc. But is there any INSIDE (or otherwise) scoop on the TRUE ROOT CAUSE? [ November 27, 2002, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

 

[TooSlick]

Pablo, You will soon start to see these types of problems with many other SOTA engine designs - particularly the multivalve, high performance ones. Operating environments are becoming more and more severe and are outpacing the capabilities of even the best lubricants. Pretty soon, you won't be able to run 7500 mile change intervals - even under ideal conditions - with anything less than a Group III synthetic or a 30% PAO/petroleum blend like Schaeffers. Designing engines to run hotter increases thermal efficiency/power and reduces exhaust emissions. These benefits are just too tempting to pass up. However, there are always tradeoffs with design and the tradeoff in this case is that the oil - and transmission fluid - is going to suffer. Other problem engines I've seen to date: 2.4L Nissan 1.8L VW/Audi turbo BMW "valvetronic" designs - particularly the "M" series vehicles I'm sure some of these new Honda/Acura, 4/6 cylinder engines are going to turn out to be very demanding as well. The 2.0L, Honda S2000 engine puts out 240 hp and has a redline of approx 8000 rpms - those are motorcycle numbers in terms of power density! I would be thinking in terms of 3000 mile max drain intervals with average quality petroleum oils and perhaps 7500-10,000 miles max with high end, PAO/Ester synthetics in many of these applications....

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

YES there is a statement by Toyota as to the true root cause. Oil drain intervals are not being adhere'd to by consumers. That was the last official word that I heard. [ November 27, 2002, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

BTW, Forgot to tell ya, HAVE A GREAT TURKEY DAY and be safe if driving.

 

[buster]

No problemo...we all get that way at times. Life is short....This site is great though. Many knowledgable people.

 

[Tommy]

Monarch did make some very good points - your shear-with-gears theory has been discussed before on this board and you still hammer away with it. I hardly think that personally attacking someone because he refuses to side with you is setting an example that Member #1 should be setting. TooSlick said it best: " I think the real answer on the Camry is that you and Monarch are both right." He is more of a diplomat than I am of course. [ November 28, 2002, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Tommy ]

 

[Bio-T]

Monarch, I think your posts on the T4X4 site were uncalled for. An apology is in order for the remarks on this board and the T4X4 board. [ November 28, 2002, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[Ron]

Hi Bob, I'm still amazed at the bad mouthing Castrol Syntec gets! "BTW, Castrol syntec is considered a synth, think it can go the distance since it is classified as a full synth??" The Blackstone analysis on my sample 5,600 miles on Syntec 5W-50 came back pretty good! Posted in August,not many positive responses followed.Well,I'm on to Havoline 5W-40 synthetic cause it's $3.39 a quart and who knows why.