Most resilient oil to GDI intake desposits please
- Thread starter webfors
- Start date
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
No amount of fancy oil engineering can prevent dirty oil from leaving valve deposits. If you want to minimize valve deposits, change your oil often.
Agreed, that's what I'm getting from the study linked above... used/dirty oil = higher deposits. What is interesting though is that "used" group2 reported significantly lower deposits than a "used" group 3 or 4 in both intake valve and combustion chamber deposits.
How is this possible? It goes against every bit of BITOG brainwashing for the past 10 years.
No amount of fancy oil engineering can prevent dirty oil from leaving valve deposits. If you want to minimize valve deposits, change your oil often.
Agreed, that's what I'm getting from the study linked above... used/dirty oil = higher deposits. What is interesting though is that "used" group2 reported significantly lower deposits than a "used" group 3 or 4 in both intake valve and combustion chamber deposits.
How is this possible? It goes against every bit of BITOG brainwashing for the past 10 years.
Originally Posted By: webfors
Agreed, that's what I'm getting from the study linked above... used/dirty oil = higher deposits. What is interesting though is that "used" group2 reported significantly lower deposits than a "used" group 3 or 4 in both intake valve and combustion chamber deposits.
How is this possible? It goes against every bit of BITOG brainwashing for the past 10 years.
Perhaps it burns cleaner, more like a fuel, than Group 3 or 4, lessening build-up. I think this is why rotary engine folks have generally used conventional oil to reduce build-up.
Agreed, that's what I'm getting from the study linked above... used/dirty oil = higher deposits. What is interesting though is that "used" group2 reported significantly lower deposits than a "used" group 3 or 4 in both intake valve and combustion chamber deposits.
How is this possible? It goes against every bit of BITOG brainwashing for the past 10 years.
Perhaps it burns cleaner, more like a fuel, than Group 3 or 4, lessening build-up. I think this is why rotary engine folks have generally used conventional oil to reduce build-up.
VALVOLINE™ DAILY PROTECTION™ MOTOR OIL
(Formerly marketed in North America as PREMIUM CONVENTIONAL)
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils SAE 5W-20 and SAE 5W-30 are formulated with advanced additive
technology and highly refined, premium quality synthetic blend basestock formulation that protect
today’s engines against undesirable deposits, contamination, and viscosity and thermal breakdown under
severe service conditions. They meet the performance requirements of virtually all naturally aspirated,
turbocharged and supercharged gasoline fueled passenger cars and light duty trucks, including European
and Japanese vehicles*.
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils meet the newly adopted API SN PLUS classification, protecting GDI
(Gasoline Direct Injection) engines from low-speed pre-ignition (LSPI).
Advantages:
High Temperature Protection: Resists breakdown in the most severe engine environments.
Low Temperature Protection: Flows easily at low temperatures, reducing wear at start-up.
High Detergency: Fights formation of sludge and varnish deposits that reduce engine life.
Wear Protection: Contains anti-wear additives that dramatically reduce engine wear.
Meets European and Japanese wear requirements.
Turbo Approved: Provides excellent protection to critical turbo unit components.
Fuel Economy: Low-friction formulation supporting strong fuel economy performance
(Formerly marketed in North America as PREMIUM CONVENTIONAL)
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils SAE 5W-20 and SAE 5W-30 are formulated with advanced additive
technology and highly refined, premium quality synthetic blend basestock formulation that protect
today’s engines against undesirable deposits, contamination, and viscosity and thermal breakdown under
severe service conditions. They meet the performance requirements of virtually all naturally aspirated,
turbocharged and supercharged gasoline fueled passenger cars and light duty trucks, including European
and Japanese vehicles*.
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils meet the newly adopted API SN PLUS classification, protecting GDI
(Gasoline Direct Injection) engines from low-speed pre-ignition (LSPI).
Advantages:
High Temperature Protection: Resists breakdown in the most severe engine environments.
Low Temperature Protection: Flows easily at low temperatures, reducing wear at start-up.
High Detergency: Fights formation of sludge and varnish deposits that reduce engine life.
Wear Protection: Contains anti-wear additives that dramatically reduce engine wear.
Meets European and Japanese wear requirements.
Turbo Approved: Provides excellent protection to critical turbo unit components.
Fuel Economy: Low-friction formulation supporting strong fuel economy performance
Originally Posted By: PimTac
I have read a lot of comments here and on other sites regarding GDI or TGDI engines and how to counter carbon buildup. To condense it all in one post;
Run the manufacturers specified oil and find one with low Noack, low calcium which equates to gen 2 dexos. Change that oil regularly. In other words don’t skip oil changes.
These engines like to be wound up. Take the vehicle out once a week and enjoy a spirited drive.
Use top tier fuel. I have also read and heard that using premium may help with fuel dilution of the oil. On a side note, my Mazda SkyActiv 2.5 hit the half tank mark from what the dealer filled it with. I filled it with Shell V-Power. Now, according to many here, I should not notice any difference but I did right off the bat. Better acceleration. Also, with no change in city/highway driving ratio, my mileage went from 24.2 to now 26.3. Was it the fuel? I can’t say for certain. Since this is totally non-scientific , it’s only my word against everyone else. The engine should adjust for the octane but maybe there is something here we do not understand fully.
Enjoy the new GovMo. Sounds like a real fun car.
I have to agree with you. My Impala is DI. I have noticed that running premium or 89 octane, the oil level drops slightly. On oil changes where I run only 87, the oil stays or increases from where it started at the last oil change (full line).
I have also monitored the fuel trims and I have seen a pretty big difference between running 87 and 91 octane. The fuel trims are much lower and more into the negative numbers with 91, and the I've also seen the MPG increase with 91 octane. Not a huge amount, but about 1 - 1.5 MPG. I drive the same route 5 days a week, about 16 miles each way.
As far as deposits, I haven't looked at the valves, but I have noticed no performance problems and the MPG is just as good or in some cases slightly better than when I bought it. The car was less than 2 years old with about 20K miles on it. I'm currently almost to 80K miles.
I am very happy with my direct injected engine, and would buy another one in a heart beat.
FWIW, with the exception of the first couple of oil changes done at the dealership, I have used Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30, and Mobil 1 5W-30 with the exception of last fall before one our 3,000 mile round trips when I picked some Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30.
I have read a lot of comments here and on other sites regarding GDI or TGDI engines and how to counter carbon buildup. To condense it all in one post;
Run the manufacturers specified oil and find one with low Noack, low calcium which equates to gen 2 dexos. Change that oil regularly. In other words don’t skip oil changes.
These engines like to be wound up. Take the vehicle out once a week and enjoy a spirited drive.
Use top tier fuel. I have also read and heard that using premium may help with fuel dilution of the oil. On a side note, my Mazda SkyActiv 2.5 hit the half tank mark from what the dealer filled it with. I filled it with Shell V-Power. Now, according to many here, I should not notice any difference but I did right off the bat. Better acceleration. Also, with no change in city/highway driving ratio, my mileage went from 24.2 to now 26.3. Was it the fuel? I can’t say for certain. Since this is totally non-scientific , it’s only my word against everyone else. The engine should adjust for the octane but maybe there is something here we do not understand fully.
Enjoy the new GovMo. Sounds like a real fun car.
I have to agree with you. My Impala is DI. I have noticed that running premium or 89 octane, the oil level drops slightly. On oil changes where I run only 87, the oil stays or increases from where it started at the last oil change (full line).
I have also monitored the fuel trims and I have seen a pretty big difference between running 87 and 91 octane. The fuel trims are much lower and more into the negative numbers with 91, and the I've also seen the MPG increase with 91 octane. Not a huge amount, but about 1 - 1.5 MPG. I drive the same route 5 days a week, about 16 miles each way.
As far as deposits, I haven't looked at the valves, but I have noticed no performance problems and the MPG is just as good or in some cases slightly better than when I bought it. The car was less than 2 years old with about 20K miles on it. I'm currently almost to 80K miles.
I am very happy with my direct injected engine, and would buy another one in a heart beat.
FWIW, with the exception of the first couple of oil changes done at the dealership, I have used Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30, and Mobil 1 5W-30 with the exception of last fall before one our 3,000 mile round trips when I picked some Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30.
Originally Posted By: Patman
Slightly off topic, but I just checked the list of dexos2 oils on there and they have one wrong. They list Castrol Edge 0w40 as being dexos2 but it's definitely not. The only 0w40 that has the dexos2 rating is M1 0w40 ESP.
Doesn't Europe have two 0w-40 Castrol options, whereas we only get the one? I'd check on the Castrol site to confirm, but going through their datasheets is a bit of a chore, to say the least.
Slightly off topic, but I just checked the list of dexos2 oils on there and they have one wrong. They list Castrol Edge 0w40 as being dexos2 but it's definitely not. The only 0w40 that has the dexos2 rating is M1 0w40 ESP.
Doesn't Europe have two 0w-40 Castrol options, whereas we only get the one? I'd check on the Castrol site to confirm, but going through their datasheets is a bit of a chore, to say the least.
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Garak
Doesn't Europe have two 0w-40 Castrol options, whereas we only get the one? I'd check on the Castrol site to confirm, but going through their datasheets is a bit of a chore, to say the least.
There is also a spot on that dexos list which says location, and under the Edge 0w40 listing it says Global, while a lot of the oils will say just Europe. Unless this is something brand new and we're going to start seeing new batches of the 0w40 having the dexos2 label on them?
Doesn't Europe have two 0w-40 Castrol options, whereas we only get the one? I'd check on the Castrol site to confirm, but going through their datasheets is a bit of a chore, to say the least.
There is also a spot on that dexos list which says location, and under the Edge 0w40 listing it says Global, while a lot of the oils will say just Europe. Unless this is something brand new and we're going to start seeing new batches of the 0w40 having the dexos2 label on them?
Yes, I did see that, too. Maybe it's going to be here, or is here at some very select places. It's certainly not a Canada only product, since Wakefield isn't mentioned.
Originally Posted By: lexus114
VALVOLINE™ DAILY PROTECTION™ MOTOR OIL
(Formerly marketed in North America as PREMIUM CONVENTIONAL)
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils SAE 5W-20 and SAE 5W-30 are formulated with advanced additive
technology and highly refined, premium quality synthetic blend basestock formulation that protect
today’s engines against undesirable deposits, contamination, and viscosity and thermal breakdown under
severe service conditions. They meet the performance requirements of virtually all naturally aspirated,
turbocharged and supercharged gasoline fueled passenger cars and light duty trucks, including European
and Japanese vehicles*.
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils meet the newly adopted API SN PLUS classification, protecting GDI
(Gasoline Direct Injection) engines from low-speed pre-ignition (LSPI).
Advantages:
High Temperature Protection: Resists breakdown in the most severe engine environments.
Low Temperature Protection: Flows easily at low temperatures, reducing wear at start-up.
High Detergency: Fights formation of sludge and varnish deposits that reduce engine life.
Wear Protection: Contains anti-wear additives that dramatically reduce engine wear.
Meets European and Japanese wear requirements.
Turbo Approved: Provides excellent protection to critical turbo unit components.
Fuel Economy: Low-friction formulation supporting strong fuel economy performance
What is the motivation behind this post?
VALVOLINE™ DAILY PROTECTION™ MOTOR OIL
(Formerly marketed in North America as PREMIUM CONVENTIONAL)
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils SAE 5W-20 and SAE 5W-30 are formulated with advanced additive
technology and highly refined, premium quality synthetic blend basestock formulation that protect
today’s engines against undesirable deposits, contamination, and viscosity and thermal breakdown under
severe service conditions. They meet the performance requirements of virtually all naturally aspirated,
turbocharged and supercharged gasoline fueled passenger cars and light duty trucks, including European
and Japanese vehicles*.
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils meet the newly adopted API SN PLUS classification, protecting GDI
(Gasoline Direct Injection) engines from low-speed pre-ignition (LSPI).
Advantages:
High Temperature Protection: Resists breakdown in the most severe engine environments.
Low Temperature Protection: Flows easily at low temperatures, reducing wear at start-up.
High Detergency: Fights formation of sludge and varnish deposits that reduce engine life.
Wear Protection: Contains anti-wear additives that dramatically reduce engine wear.
Meets European and Japanese wear requirements.
Turbo Approved: Provides excellent protection to critical turbo unit components.
Fuel Economy: Low-friction formulation supporting strong fuel economy performance
What is the motivation behind this post?
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: PimTac
After six pages, in my opinion run any brand of dexos1 Gen2 certified oil and be confident.
And change it often. No extended OCIs.
Yep.
Define often?
Does that mean not following the OLM, which in my application will result in ~7.5K miles at 0%? I believe the UOA that's incoming will have a story to tell.
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: PimTac
After six pages, in my opinion run any brand of dexos1 Gen2 certified oil and be confident.
And change it often. No extended OCIs.
Yep.
Define often?
Does that mean not following the OLM, which in my application will result in ~7.5K miles at 0%? I believe the UOA that's incoming will have a story to tell.
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: PimTac
After six pages, in my opinion run any brand of dexos1 Gen2 certified oil and be confident.
And change it often. No extended OCIs.
Yep.
Define often?
Does that mean not following the OLM, which in my application will result in ~7.5K miles at 0%? I believe the UOA that's incoming will have a story to tell.
with my application...17' civic 1.5t...means every 3mos/x miles...this engine is horrible on oil.
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: PimTac
After six pages, in my opinion run any brand of dexos1 Gen2 certified oil and be confident.
And change it often. No extended OCIs.
Yep.
Define often?
Does that mean not following the OLM, which in my application will result in ~7.5K miles at 0%? I believe the UOA that's incoming will have a story to tell.
with my application...17' civic 1.5t...means every 3mos/x miles...this engine is horrible on oil.
Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: lexus114
VALVOLINE™ DAILY PROTECTION™ MOTOR OIL
(Formerly marketed in North America as PREMIUM CONVENTIONAL)
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils SAE 5W-20 and SAE 5W-30 are formulated with advanced additive
technology and highly refined, premium quality synthetic blend basestock formulation that protect
today’s engines against undesirable deposits, contamination, and viscosity and thermal breakdown under
severe service conditions. They meet the performance requirements of virtually all naturally aspirated,
turbocharged and supercharged gasoline fueled passenger cars and light duty trucks, including European
and Japanese vehicles*.
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils meet the newly adopted API SN PLUS classification, protecting GDI
(Gasoline Direct Injection) engines from low-speed pre-ignition (LSPI).
Advantages:
High Temperature Protection: Resists breakdown in the most severe engine environments.
Low Temperature Protection: Flows easily at low temperatures, reducing wear at start-up.
High Detergency: Fights formation of sludge and varnish deposits that reduce engine life.
Wear Protection: Contains anti-wear additives that dramatically reduce engine wear.
Meets European and Japanese wear requirements.
Turbo Approved: Provides excellent protection to critical turbo unit components.
Fuel Economy: Low-friction formulation supporting strong fuel economy performance
What is the motivation behind this post?
this is what was being discussed about using conventional oil.
read post #4709342 - 03/28/18 09:04 AM
Originally Posted By: lexus114
VALVOLINE™ DAILY PROTECTION™ MOTOR OIL
(Formerly marketed in North America as PREMIUM CONVENTIONAL)
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils SAE 5W-20 and SAE 5W-30 are formulated with advanced additive
technology and highly refined, premium quality synthetic blend basestock formulation that protect
today’s engines against undesirable deposits, contamination, and viscosity and thermal breakdown under
severe service conditions. They meet the performance requirements of virtually all naturally aspirated,
turbocharged and supercharged gasoline fueled passenger cars and light duty trucks, including European
and Japanese vehicles*.
Valvoline Daily Protection Motor Oils meet the newly adopted API SN PLUS classification, protecting GDI
(Gasoline Direct Injection) engines from low-speed pre-ignition (LSPI).
Advantages:
High Temperature Protection: Resists breakdown in the most severe engine environments.
Low Temperature Protection: Flows easily at low temperatures, reducing wear at start-up.
High Detergency: Fights formation of sludge and varnish deposits that reduce engine life.
Wear Protection: Contains anti-wear additives that dramatically reduce engine wear.
Meets European and Japanese wear requirements.
Turbo Approved: Provides excellent protection to critical turbo unit components.
Fuel Economy: Low-friction formulation supporting strong fuel economy performance
What is the motivation behind this post?
this is what was being discussed about using conventional oil.
read post #4709342 - 03/28/18 09:04 AM
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I run M1 10W30 in my '17 Sonata GDI for these reasons : Low NOACK of approx. 6% and low Viscosity Improvers - both equate to lower intake deposits . I also run only top tier gas and use a bottle of Gumout Complete Fuel System Cleaner just before every oil change (5,000 miles) and drive mainly around the 'burbs in "Sport" mode to keep RPM's up over 2,000 RPM's while driving so the engine doesn't lug . *I've done all I can do to address intake valve deposits with the above approach , so far so good - but only 10,000 miles driven so far ...
Originally Posted By: webfors
Let's hear the experience and opinions flow.
What oil brand, viscosity, and spec is the most resilient to contributing to intake carbon deposits on GDI engines.
I've read many threads, on many forums, for many different types of GDI engines. There is consensus that a full synthetic (whatever that means...?) shows clear signs of reducing the intake deposits. I suspect because of syns tolerance to high heat and a higher quality base oil with lower noack.
This is what I do in my Kia but with 5W-30. (Various synthetic oils.) I also drive 50 miles a day on the highway back and forth to work. 80K so far and no issues.
I run M1 10W30 in my '17 Sonata GDI for these reasons : Low NOACK of approx. 6% and low Viscosity Improvers - both equate to lower intake deposits . I also run only top tier gas and use a bottle of Gumout Complete Fuel System Cleaner just before every oil change (5,000 miles) and drive mainly around the 'burbs in "Sport" mode to keep RPM's up over 2,000 RPM's while driving so the engine doesn't lug . *I've done all I can do to address intake valve deposits with the above approach , so far so good - but only 10,000 miles driven so far ...
Originally Posted By: webfors
Let's hear the experience and opinions flow.
What oil brand, viscosity, and spec is the most resilient to contributing to intake carbon deposits on GDI engines.
I've read many threads, on many forums, for many different types of GDI engines. There is consensus that a full synthetic (whatever that means...?) shows clear signs of reducing the intake deposits. I suspect because of syns tolerance to high heat and a higher quality base oil with lower noack.
This is what I do in my Kia but with 5W-30. (Various synthetic oils.) I also drive 50 miles a day on the highway back and forth to work. 80K so far and no issues.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: webfors
Define often?
3-5k miles. It all depends on how much you want to try and slow down deposit formation. All GDI engines will build up carbon in the intake ports and back side of the valve. Perhaps a better investment would be a quality aftermarket air/oil separator.
Define often?
3-5k miles. It all depends on how much you want to try and slow down deposit formation. All GDI engines will build up carbon in the intake ports and back side of the valve. Perhaps a better investment would be a quality aftermarket air/oil separator.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ChrisD46
I run M1 10W30 in my '17 Sonata GDI for these reasons : Low NOACK of approx. 6% and low Viscosity Improvers - both equate to lower intake deposits . I also run only top tier gas and use a bottle of Gumout Complete Fuel System Cleaner just before every oil change (5,000 miles) and drive mainly around the 'burbs in "Sport" mode to keep RPM's up over 2,000 RPM's while driving so the engine doesn't lug . *I've done all I can do to address intake valve deposits with the above approach , so far so good - but only 10,000 miles driven so far ...
Originally Posted By: webfors
Let's hear the experience and opinions flow.
What oil brand, viscosity, and spec is the most resilient to contributing to intake carbon deposits on GDI engines.
I've read many threads, on many forums, for many different types of GDI engines. There is consensus that a full synthetic (whatever that means...?) shows clear signs of reducing the intake deposits. I suspect because of syns tolerance to high heat and a higher quality base oil with lower noack.
You make a good point about sport mode. There is a definite difference in low rpm lugging between Touring and Sport mode on the ATS. Sport mode keeps the rpms higher, with turbo lag reduced. The more aggressive you drive the more aggressive the rpm holding/shifting. I'm going to leave it on full time now to avoid that low rpm lugging that I've noticed in Touring mode.
I run M1 10W30 in my '17 Sonata GDI for these reasons : Low NOACK of approx. 6% and low Viscosity Improvers - both equate to lower intake deposits . I also run only top tier gas and use a bottle of Gumout Complete Fuel System Cleaner just before every oil change (5,000 miles) and drive mainly around the 'burbs in "Sport" mode to keep RPM's up over 2,000 RPM's while driving so the engine doesn't lug . *I've done all I can do to address intake valve deposits with the above approach , so far so good - but only 10,000 miles driven so far ...
Originally Posted By: webfors
Let's hear the experience and opinions flow.
What oil brand, viscosity, and spec is the most resilient to contributing to intake carbon deposits on GDI engines.
I've read many threads, on many forums, for many different types of GDI engines. There is consensus that a full synthetic (whatever that means...?) shows clear signs of reducing the intake deposits. I suspect because of syns tolerance to high heat and a higher quality base oil with lower noack.
You make a good point about sport mode. There is a definite difference in low rpm lugging between Touring and Sport mode on the ATS. Sport mode keeps the rpms higher, with turbo lag reduced. The more aggressive you drive the more aggressive the rpm holding/shifting. I'm going to leave it on full time now to avoid that low rpm lugging that I've noticed in Touring mode.
I have about 51,400 miles on my 15 3 with the 2.0. I've only used Mobil 1 oil due to the SA of .8 and low volatility. I've also strictly used top tier gas, usually Shell or BP in the mid to premium grades. As others have said, there are other factors at play when it comes to GDI intake deposits.
Similar threads
- Locked
