More proof that the 3000 mile change is bogus

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1,432
Location
Virginia
Mornin' all; I did some surfing and found an interesting take on the "Extended Drain Debate". http://doityourself.com/auto/extendeddrain.htm Some interesting excerpts, regarding the industry's attempts to get people to rigidly follow the 3,000 mile/3 month schedule: "The research showed that through a strong emotional appeal, rather than a rational appeal, consumers could be encouraged to reconsider vehicle care and maintenance and take action...Assuming a successful in-test market campaign, the industry will be called upon to participate in a full-blown national campaign that will rival those initiatives of the pork, beef and milk industries." ***Pretty much an admission that they're screwing with our minds. A motor vehicle is an object. Making decisions about it for emotional reasons seems unhealthy to me. I don't even want to think about getting emotional with regard to pork, beef or milk. Here's another one: "Nearly every new vehicle owners manual states that severe drivers should change their oil every 3,000 miles. Most drivers don't consider themselves to be severe drivers, although they actually are." ***This just isn't true. MANY now have "severe" intervals of 3750 or 5000. GM's 3000 mile interval only applies to dusty conditions - otherwise follow the onboard oil change system. Finally: "A consumer poll commissioned by Pennzoil/Quaker-State asked 3,300 consumers if they were severe drivers. When asked with no definition, 85 percent of the respondents assumed they were normal drivers, and only 15 percent thought they were severe. When given parameters that define severe driving, 55 percent responded that they were, in fact, severe drivers." ***Half of drivers are "severe", so everyone should follow the 3000 mile OCI? Never mind that I've seen what the oil and filter companies consider "severe"...a lot broader than any of my car manuals' definitions. Again I ask the question: Where are all the dead cars? What is the 'problem' to be solved here, aside from a marketing one? [ April 27, 2004, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: Matt89 ]
 
Messages
548
Location
Texas
As with most things, simple education would solve a lot of this. Only nuts like us who monitor this site daily know what can and cannot be done with a cars engine. Most people have the Jiffy Lube commercial stuck in their heads and follow their advice. Its easy to get your oil changed in 10 minutes on the way to BK!
 
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143
Location
NH
the thing about 3k oil changes are that consumers are not hurting their motors by performing this and actually in my opinion giving longevity to their engines life whether they keep them or not. the flip side is the amount of time/money spent to keep this going. Another good aspect of 3k oil changes is that most consumers don't check their oil level. Most cars keep their level of only lose a bit by 3k miles, if stretched to a longer interval their is a potential of being 1QT-2QTs low which is not beneficial. Lastly, a side note, I use evil Walmart for my oil changes ($16 for any brand dino and SuperTech filter if you ask). The large issue I see with them and the 3k oil change is garbage! They only use bottled oil at our location (you can pick whatever you please) even the $11.99 special is SuperTech bottled oil. That is a lot of waste I doubt is properly recycled. [ April 27, 2004, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: andyfish ]
 
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Oklahoma
I know we dog the quickie-lubes, but from a recycling standpoint, they are the best. They actually sell their used oil to oil recyclers. What the they do is blend it with diesel to get the BTU's and flashpoints up and then they turn around and sell it as heating fuel. At least it isn't going down the drain.
 
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97
Location
NYC
The irony of all this is that the oil nuts on this board are so obsessed with OCI and PPM, etc. that they change their OWN oil before it's acutally necessary [Razz]
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,012
Location
Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrolkid: The irony of all this is that the oil nuts on this board are so obsessed with OCI and PPM, etc. that they change their OWN oil before it's acutally necessary [Razz]
This is true. Even though I tell people that the 3k interval is unnecessary with synthetics, I'm guilty of doing some pretty short intervals myself. In a lot of cases it's simply impatience on my part, wanting to see my UOA results sooner. In other cases it's simply because I wish to switch to a different oil, or I wish to see a comparison run between oils under similar weather, so I end up changing the oil before the winter hits. Since I don't plan on switching oils anytime soon (I've got 52L of GC 0w30 in my shrine) eventually I'll establish a trend with my UOAs and then will extend the intervals a bit more.
 
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Pottstown, PA
Patman has a point. Most here tend to be in a, somewhat, R&D mode. I don't think the methodology is always sound ..but.. [I dont know] The 3m/3k is NOT for the informed. It's for the ignorant, as was pointed out. There's also the matter of how long you keep your car ..and if you're buying it new. The "third" owner may very well be served best with a 3m/3k OCI to compensate for neglect of the previous two owners.
 
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130
Location
New York
Another thing: All these people that change their oil at 3K may be better served spending their money on other maintenance items that they never think of. Brake fluid? transmission fluid? fuel filter? air filter? Coolant? How many people know these things even exist, let alone need to be changed periodically.
 
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13,132
Location
By Detroit
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrolkid: The irony of all this is that the oil nuts on this board are so obsessed with OCI and PPM, etc. that they change their OWN oil before it's acutally necessary [Razz]
[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] Me too. I can hardly wait to change my oil again. I was getting depressed because I am going on a two week trip and would miss my favorite oil message boards, but then I realized I will be able to burn through an entire OCI in two weeks and now I am getting really excited. should have a UOA ready to post in about 4 weeks. [Happy]
 
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2,235
Location
SE MI
This entire thread is bogus - what is being discussed is definitions of severe and non-severe. I say let UOAs of dino 5W-30 speak for themselves... I wouldn't leave dino 5W-30 in an engine for more than 3000 miles unless you want to see it magically turn into xW-20 and then xW-40 over a short amount of time past 3000 miles.
 
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Southeast
I've got a buddy who drains his Mobil 1 at 3000 miles in his Protege 5. Oh and he runs a Bosch filter because consumer reports says it filters better. I cringe when I hear that. Im gonna make him give me his leftover Mobil 1 so I can run it another 5K in my tercel. His oil changes are $27 done in his driveway, mine are $5-9 depending on car.
 

Matt89

Thread starter
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1,432
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Virginia
Metroplex; I can't argue what might or might not be happening to a 5W30 over time. I'm just saying that it's a psychological issue more than anything else and the industry is capitalizing on it. The guy using recommended dino oils at reasonable 5-7.5K intervals might not have the prettiest analysis numbers but he may just be getting the most bang for his buck. [ April 27, 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Matt89 ]
 

nel

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270
Location
Northern CA
I think it's all situation dependent, and you have to proceed with some knowledge of what works and doesn't work for you. For example, I tend to drive my GMC Sonoma fairly easily. Upon viewing my recent UOA, Terry suggested going 6K on Pennzoil 5W30. I'm somewhat apprehensive and will change the oil later this week at 5K miles. I'll be sure to post in the UOA section once I have the info. Absent any hard data, I think a 4K interval is a good, safe number for most folks using dino.
 
I think the 3K/3M is for the 90% of the knuckle heads out there that drive cars and don't know what they are doing. If they think they should follow the 3/3 then odds are they might get around to doing the service in say 8K miles and 6 months. The only saving grace is they keep making the oil and cars better every year. JMHO Members of this site are not part of the knuckle head 90% since we are crazy oil maniacs [Smile]
 

Matt89

Thread starter
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1,432
Location
Virginia
quote:
If they think they should follow the 3/3 then odds are they might get around to doing the service in say 8K miles and 6 months.
[LOL!] That's the real problem. Even more twisted is my stepdad. Does oil & filter religiously every 3K, but doesn't believe in ANY other maintenance. Like coolant, brake fluid, transmission,tire rotation...WTF
 
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556
Location
Melbourne Australia
quote:
Originally posted by Matt89: Even more twisted is my stepdad. Does oil & filter religiously every 3K, but doesn't believe in ANY other maintenance. Like coolant, brake fluid, transmission,tire rotation...WTF
[Eek!] Remind me never to buy a used car owned by your stepdad. I change coolant and brake fluid at every oil change, regardless of the service interval.
 
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11,247
Location
PA
quote:
Even more twisted is my stepdad. Does oil & filter religiously every 3K, but doesn't believe in ANY other maintenance. Like coolant, brake fluid, transmission,tire rotation...WTF
I feel for you. So many people don't want to do anything more than gas-n-go. It is a tug-of-war with my parents to get them to run super gas in their cars. Mom's 1996 VW has a 10.5:1 ratio but calls for regular due to consumer demanded issues. The super would keep the fuel injection clean and it would run better, a bigger-bodied car with the small engine option. 10% cost increase for 93 only requires a 10% mileage increase for break-even... 2 MPG. Dad's Mercedes calls for super-gas right on the fueler door...does not ever happen. What I have to do is add some TL-3 fi cleaner, I buy it by the bunch at AutoZone for $3, meets MB M102E and BMW 10-K valve cleaning specs. What can you do? They grew up in the depression era where people hoarded junk and were stingy. Mom tells stories about rides with the gang where everybody has to pitch in a quarter for gas. Now people want to look like a big-shot and treat everyone but "putting it on the card". This is ironic as her Dad was a long-time Oldsmobile mechanic. He kept her fleet of "exotic" cars going strong, MG, Austin Healey etc..
 

Matt89

Thread starter
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1,432
Location
Virginia
I guess what kind of freaked me out about this stuff was that the industry is deliberately trying to keep the 3/3 brainwash alive and well, to boost oil sales not to mention all the other stuff that people may or may not need. And they're not afraid to bend the truth (like the severe service intervals and conditions mentioned). I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if all the 3/3 changers went to a 5000 mile/6 month OCI, the change in average engine/vehicle lifespan would be MINIMAL at best...only the relatively few cars operating in conditions worthy of 3/3 would suffer, and not that much. The article says that the average person takes their car to the quickloob at 5200 miles. So for all the people who do 3k there's another who's doing 7K on jiffyoil. Overall it seems to be working...for the non-enthusiast at least.
 
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College Dorm...
If you're using a mineral PCEO oil (which the vast majority of gas automobile engines in this country are running on), I don't see the 3K oil change "myth" being such a bad thing...
 
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