More pay as you drive

[JHZR2]

Quote:
Their top recommendation was to tax motorists based on how many miles they drive. That would require equipping cars and trucks with devices that use GPS technology to record not only how many miles the vehicle was driven, but whether the driving took place on interstate highways or secondary roads and whether it was during peak travel periods. The device would calculate the amount of tax owed and the bill could be downloaded.

A mileage-based tax system would take about 10 years to implement


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090602/ap_on_go_co/us_highway_money

So they mandate alternative fuel cars, reduced emissions, etc., and then tax as a result.

I know we have discussed this before, but generally as I recall on a basis of states doing this - this article is a federal issue.

Federal imposing on use in what is a state-controlled system (auto registration, etc.) to me is a no-no.

Perhaps the paradigm has to be a bigger buy in from the states, even when interstate and federal roads are considered, but I see this as an issue of bigger proportion than the state-based mileage taxation.

Then again, we want smooth roads, how do we pay for them?

Thoughts?

 

[SuperDave456]

Here in North Texas it seems that EVERYTHING we have is a Toll Road.
I don't like any idea that involves taxes. But it has to be said that everything that isn't a toll road is falling apart.

What was the statistic? Something like 80% of bridges in the USA are in need of serious repair?
Perhaps we have reached the point of no return as far as infrastructure, and from here on out we either work with what we have, or we build more and let the rest fall apart.

 

[sciphi]

Why not implement a yearly odometer inspection as part of your insurance renewal? So once a year you take your car to a place that photographs cars for insurance anyhow, and they snap a pic of your odometer.

Of course this would lead to higher insurance costs for some folks. And odometer-rolling would become popular again.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Why not implement a yearly odometer inspection as part of your insurance renewal? ....

And odometer-rolling would become popular again.


That's the exact reason why not.

 

[brianl703]

Increased gas taxes would be preferable to this.

 

[Mr Nice]

Thats how it is down here... you pay to get on the highway, pay as you drive, then pay to exit the highway.

Unless you take I-95 which is free but pure [censored].
Even the I-95 'express lanes' you have to pay toll.

 

[Tempest]

They don't use all of the current gas tax for road building and they don't use the money they have in a wise matter (see bridges above).

So obviously we should give them more money all the while giving the government the right to know where and how you drive...

How do you like the idea of getting a speeding ticket from a satellite?

This is extraordinarily dangerous.

 

[ViragoBry]

You'll also have people ripping out the GPS units and leaving them sitting on the kitchen table, hooked to a 12-volt power source.

 

[Kestas]

Bring it on. Us BITOGers will find a way to beat the system.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
They don't use all of the current gas tax for road building and they don't use the money they have in a wise matter (see bridges above).

So obviously we should give them more money all the while giving the government the right to know where and how you drive...

How do you like the idea of getting a speeding ticket from a satellite?

This is extraordinarily dangerous.


Gas tax itself isn't sufficient in paying for the road and bridges. So you are right, they use sales tax for that.

You can either raise money via toll road (traffic jam), increase gas tax (Tempest disapprove), driving distance calculation (Tempest doesn't like the idea), or more speeding ticket (Tempest doesn't like the idea).


Since installing an RFID tag that calculated which road you used would reduce your privacy. I'd conclude that you are in for making every street a toll road and you have to stop every 1/4 mile to pay for it?

 

[JHZR2]

All I want is a little better tracking of monies going into the various funds... SS tax is for SS, gasoline tax is for the highway fund, medicare is for medicare, etc.

We took "loans" against all these programs, and can't pay them back. If the money had been set aside and/or utilized as planned, it all would have gone a LOT further...

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
Gas tax itself isn't sufficient in paying for the road and bridges. So you are right, they use sales tax for that.

No, they only use about 32% of the gas tax on roads. They use the rest of it on social programs or the like.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post1334208

From the original article:
Quote:
at a hearing Tuesday that the administration has told senators the Federal Highway Trust Fund will need an estimated $5 billion to $7 billion to keep current construction projects going.

Quote:
another $8 billion to $10 billion will be needed to keep the fund solvent through the year ending Sept. 30, 2010.

Transportation Department spokeswoman Jill Zuckman confirmed those figures.

And my favorite:
Quote:
The two panels also said fuel taxes are not a sustainable source of revenue over the long term as drivers shift to more fuel efficient vehicles. Both panels recommended Congress find a new revenue source to pay for highway and transit programs

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
All I want is a little better tracking of monies going into the various funds... SS tax is for SS, gasoline tax is for the highway fund, medicare is for medicare, etc.

Good luck with that. There is NO mandate for this. Even for the money supposedly going to SS.
Quote:
it all would have gone a LOT further...

Maybe, but it still would be way short.

 

[tonycarguy]

They should just increase the gas tax. It's more simple than GPS tracking. There should also be a flat vehicle registration tax. I'm paying over $1000 per year in reg fees for a car that's driven under 2000mi. My car does not do more damage to the roads than 10 less expensive cars that are driven 12k miles per year, but the fees imply that

 

[oilyriser]

Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
You'll also have people ripping out the GPS units and leaving them sitting on the kitchen table, hooked to a 12-volt power source.


or a fancy circuit that gives off signals exactly the same as GPS satellites, but programmed to simulate the route of your choice.

I wonder what the toll would be for crossing Lake Ontario by car...

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
All I want is a little better tracking of monies going into the various funds... SS tax is for SS, gasoline tax is for the highway fund, medicare is for medicare, etc.

Good luck with that. There is NO mandate for this. Even for the money supposedly going to SS.
Quote:
it all would have gone a LOT further...

Maybe, but it still would be way short.


question then is, if it had ALWAYS been implemented properly, as was (supposedly) always intended, how long would it have lasted?

Id guess a lot longer...

 

[eljefino]

I love it when Tempest quotes himself from a previous thread!!

If they do start using GPS for tax purposes, you bet your sweet bippy they aren't going to let the satellites fail!!!

The fed road tax hasn't increased since, what, 1993? You can't buy nearly as much asphalt, labor, machinery etc today. Try not increasing anything else for that period of time... Social Security, Congress' paychecks, etc...

Incidentally whenever a toll road is chartered, part of the deal is the state promises not to improve parallel roads. They are fine with that lack of responsibility and that's why they're full of potholes and 25 MPH local speed limits!

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: tonycarguy
They should just increase the gas tax. It's more simple than GPS tracking. There should also be a flat vehicle registration tax. I'm paying over $1000 per year in reg fees for a car that's driven under 2000mi. My car does not do more damage to the roads than 10 less expensive cars that are driven 12k miles per year, but the fees imply that



Actually, it depends on where you park it, it may consume parking space that could be valuable. Some may think that a gas tax is unfair to Hummer or SUV drivers while flat driving distance calculation can be cheated, hence the flat vehicle registration tax.

Sorry, there is no tax that can make everyone happy, other than no tax at all.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Incidentally whenever a toll road is chartered, part of the deal is the state promises not to improve parallel roads.


Calling Tempest. We need someone to bust the anti-capitalist trade barrier.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: oilyriser
or a fancy circuit that gives off signals exactly the same as GPS satellites, but programmed to simulate the route of your choice.

I wonder what the toll would be for crossing Lake Ontario by car...


You just broke the law by interfering a non-public frequency, or tempering with a federal monitoring device.