More frequent OCI and intake valve deposits

W

wbwanzer

Joined
Mar 28, 2007
Messages
387
Location
York, Pa.
I'm trying to get the IVD situation figured out and I'm mostly confused when it comes to oil choice and interval. My vehicle is a 2019 Kia Sorento with the 3.3 V6. Naturally aspirated direct injection. I'm currently running Shell RGT 5W-30. 5W-30 is what the manual calls for. Kia calls for 3750 mile oil change under severe conditions and 7500 change for normal conditions. I'm not driving much currently because of the virus, but would normally do about 2/3 of my driving in short trip, stop and go driving. The other third is highway mileage. So I was planning to do changes around 5000 miles based on the amount of short trip driving.

At this time I'm not planning to add a catch can. But I'm thinking that maybe even shorter OCIs would be beneficial with respect to IVD. My thinking is that the dirtier the oil that is in the blow-by, the worse the IVD would be. Cleaner oil getting blown-by would be less of a problem. Does that make sense or no? Is this a faulty assumption? I see the dirty intake valves in the YouTube videos and it makes me wonder if shorter OCIs would help. Would the caked up valves still look the same with say, 3000 mile OCIs? What about changing PCV more often? Any benefit to that?

I think the RGT is in the thicker end of the viscosity range (which I think would be good) but don't know about all the other factors like NOACK and SAPS and all the other numbers that I don't quite understand. I have four more changes worth of RGT on hand.

Any insight from those that know will be appreciated.
 
It's really hard to say. I'm finding preventing deposits in GDI engines is almost impossible to do, even in the DI engines that are less prone to having them. It was once assumed lower SAPS oils would be beneficial, but I no longer believe that is the case. I would stick with low to moderate drain intervals.

I'm starting to think how you drive the car makes the biggest difference. Engines that get a lot of use and are run long periods of time on the highway seem to be less prone to intake valve deposits compared to those that do a lot of short trip, city driving.

Valvoline Modern Engine is the only oil marketed towards solving this issue through a unique detergent and dispersant chemistry. They have claimed up to a 40% reduction on industry standard testing for carbon buildup. A pretty bold claim.
 
As a former DI owner (Lexus IS), I put a ****load of miles on my car. Mechanic took off valve covers b4 I sold it and said it looked really good for a DI engine with 150k miles on it.

**Low Noack oils
**Highway miles at sane high speeds for long distances
**Follow maintenace schedule on OCI's....default to severe schedule
**Gas additives with PEA----->run on 1/4 tank. Diesel mechanic told me to do this 4x per year
**Occasional Italian tune up
**Keep short tripping to a minumum
**Get engine warm(er) b4 taking off
 
Originally Posted by Speak2Mountain
As a former DI owner (Lexus IS), I put a ****load of miles on my car. Mechanic took off valve covers b4 I sold it and said it looked really good for a DI engine with 150k miles on it.

**Low Noack oils
**Highway miles at sane high speeds for long distances
**Follow maintenace schedule on OCI's....default to severe schedule
**Gas additives with PEA----->run on 1/4 tank. Diesel mechanic told me to do this 4x per year
**Occasional Italian tune up
**Keep short tripping to a minumum
**Get engine warm(er) b4 taking off


Was your Lexis a dual port (PFI/DI)? What oil did you use most of the time?
 
The H/K 3.3 Lambda II DI is not known to have intake valve deposit issues.
When you look at animations of it's operation, it appears it has a dual stage/split injection from the DI, one short burst when the intake valves are open (and getting some fuel on the valves) and a longer one when the valves are closed.
See at about 1 minute in this video:
 
Originally Posted by wbwanzer
I'm trying to get the IVD situation figured out and I'm mostly confused when it comes to oil choice and interval. My vehicle is a 2019 Kia Sorento with the 3.3 V6. Naturally aspirated direct injection. I'm currently running Shell RGT 5W-30. 5W-30 is what the manual calls for. Kia calls for 3750 mile oil change under severe conditions and 7500 change for normal conditions. I'm not driving much currently because of the virus, but would normally do about 2/3 of my driving in short trip, stop and go driving. The other third is highway mileage. So I was planning to do changes around 5000 miles based on the amount of short trip driving.

At this time I'm not planning to add a catch can. But I'm thinking that maybe even shorter OCIs would be beneficial with respect to IVD. My thinking is that the dirtier the oil that is in the blow-by, the worse the IVD would be. Cleaner oil getting blown-by would be less of a problem. Does that make sense or no? Is this a faulty assumption? I see the dirty intake valves in the YouTube videos and it makes me wonder if shorter OCIs would help. Would the caked up valves still look the same with say, 3000 mile OCIs? What about changing PCV more often? Any benefit to that?

I think the RGT is in the thicker end of the viscosity range (which I think would be good) but don't know about all the other factors like NOACK and SAPS and all the other numbers that I don't quite understand. I have four more changes worth of RGT on hand.

Any insight from those that know will be appreciated.

*I have a 2017 Hyundai 2.4L GDI (non Turbo) I am seeing that Valvoline Advance 5W30 D1 / Gen 2 has the lowest VII's (which can lead to IVD's) , reasonably low ash and very good NOAK numbers . Next , after the preferred Valvoline Advance 5W30 - it is a fairly close comparison between QSUD 5W30 and PP 5W30 , followed by M1 5W30 and last is Castrol 5W30 (all D1 / Gen 2 rated) . I run OCI's for similar driving conditions as you of between 4,000 to 5,000 miles max as a recent UOA shows the oil is about spent at those mileages (the 3.3L Kia may do a bit better than my smaller 2017 2.4L GDI engine).
 
Originally Posted by buster
It's really hard to say. I'm finding preventing deposits in GDI engines is almost impossible to do, even in the DI engines that are less prone to having them. It was once assumed lower SAPS oils would be beneficial, but I no longer believe that is the case. I would stick with low to moderate drain intervals.

I'm starting to think how you drive the car makes the biggest difference. Engines that get a lot of use and are run long periods of time on the highway seem to be less prone to intake valve deposits compared to those that do a lot of short trip, city driving.

Valvoline Modern Engine is the only oil marketed towards solving this issue through a unique detergent and dispersant chemistry. They have claimed up to a 40% reduction on industry standard testing for carbon buildup. A pretty bold claim.


So if lower Noack level and low SAPS oils are not beneficial, what spec should I look for in an oil? Or it does not even matters anymore?
 
Originally Posted by painfx
Originally Posted by buster
It's really hard to say. I'm finding preventing deposits in GDI engines is almost impossible to do, even in the DI engines that are less prone to having them. It was once assumed lower SAPS oils would be beneficial, but I no longer believe that is the case. I would stick with low to moderate drain intervals.

I'm starting to think how you drive the car makes the biggest difference. Engines that get a lot of use and are run long periods of time on the highway seem to be less prone to intake valve deposits compared to those that do a lot of short trip, city driving.

Valvoline Modern Engine is the only oil marketed towards solving this issue through a unique detergent and dispersant chemistry. They have claimed up to a 40% reduction on industry standard testing for carbon buildup. A pretty bold claim.


So if lower Noack level and low SAPS oils are not beneficial, what spec should I look for in an oil? Or it does not even matters anymore?


The qualities I would look for in GDI motor oil would include the best base stocks and a robust, proven additive package. It's all about antioxidants and detergents. Scrutinize viscosity carefully, and choose the appropriate grade for your circumstances.
 
I'm a bit confused by this video. I'm not a current car guy so bear with me. The video says fuel is injected into the cylinder under high pressure. So that's what it shows in the video. My question is if that's the case, what does the intake valves do? And why do they need to be cleaned periodically?. Would putting a additional cleaner in the fuel handle the "build up" they claim is a common problem?.,
 
Originally Posted by BigCahuna
I'm a bit confused by this video. I'm not a current car guy so bear with me. The video says fuel is injected into the cylinder under high pressure. So that's what it shows in the video. My question is if that's the case, what does the intake valves do? And why do they need to be cleaned periodically?. Would putting a additional cleaner in the fuel handle the "build up" they claim is a common problem?.,




The intake valves allow air to enter the combustion chamber.

Previously, fuel was introduced into the combustion chamber via the same route. Now with DI it's direct. Fuel used to help keep the intake valves clean. That is where the deposit problems come into play.

As mentioned above, the injectors do not necessarily inject fuel once per cycle. They can inject multiple times depending on what the computer tells the system to do. If the fuel is injected while the intake is open then that can help with cleaning.

It depends on the engine and the computer.
 
I think speak2mountain makes some good suggestions. In my wife's 19 CR-V I'll use PP 10-30 April-Sept and PP 5-20 Oct-March. That will keep the OCI under 5000 miles. We'll use TT gas as often as possible (keep those injectors spraying a good pattern). It will get some short trips due to proximity to her job. I guess I'll have to do a few extra Italian tune-ups! ...
 
short of both port + DI injections eventually carbon issues will come, but some are getting a bit better with turbo'd engines usually worse. its not IF but WHEN but with many trading sooner it will be the next owners issue. NO DI for me but girlfriends 18 optima 2.4 SEEMS to be doing ok for now + unlike her traded oil sucking 13 2.5L malibu it runs great!
 
In your scenario I'd run Supertech or Traveler conventional 4k miles. You're definitely in severe territory.

I would encourage you to consider an air oil separator, which is different than a catch can. Also in the winter months you might consider a grill block. Blocking off most of your grill will help warm up times, which gives you less fuel dilution, better heat, and better MPG.
 
Originally Posted by buster


I'm starting to think how you drive the car makes the biggest difference. Engines that get a lot of use and are run long periods of time on the highway seem to be less prone to intake valve deposits compared to those that do a lot of short trip, city driving.



I think that's good advice for the overall health of any engine, the ones that get driven on longer trips more often are generally much more reliable. I also think that driving the car harder from time to time is good for it's health too, at least when it comes to my Corvette, it's good for my health!

banana2.gif
 
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by buster


I'm starting to think how you drive the car makes the biggest difference. Engines that get a lot of use and are run long periods of time on the highway seem to be less prone to intake valve deposits compared to those that do a lot of short trip, city driving.



I think that's good advice for the overall health of any engine, the ones that get driven on longer trips more often are generally much more reliable. I also think that driving the car harder from time to time is good for it's health too, at least when it comes to my Corvette, it's good for my health!

banana2.gif



cheers3.gif
 
Originally Posted by buster
I'm starting to think how you drive the car makes the biggest difference. Engines that get a lot of use and are run long periods of time on the highway seem to be less prone to intake valve deposits compared to those that do a lot of short trip, city driving.


Give it the Italian Tune-up.
grin2.gif
 
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by buster


I'm starting to think how you drive the car makes the biggest difference. Engines that get a lot of use and are run long periods of time on the highway seem to be less prone to intake valve deposits compared to those that do a lot of short trip, city driving.



I think that's good advice for the overall health of any engine, the ones that get driven on longer trips more often are generally much more reliable. I also think that driving the car harder from time to time is good for it's health too, at least when it comes to my Corvette, it's good for my health!

banana2.gif



You're right. Whenever i go on spirited runs in my vette, the next day the engine "seems" to be running more smooth. It's hard to explain lol
 
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