I certainly hope they do. I’m counting on it, you know?
Molybdenum Disulfide powder.
- Thread starter Jarpin
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Wasn't powdered graphite used in "Arco Graphite" Motor Oil back in the 70's? I heard stories about the graphite settling out of that crap, and causing a myriad of problems in a LOT of engines, and clogging up oil filters.
It wasn't long for the market. The stuff poured jet black right out of the 1 quart cardboard can.
"TBN, to me, is something that is a dinosaur, it's a relic from the past" (15:00) in regard to sulfur levels in fuel in the US, et al.
Interesting comment he made. What do you guys think?
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The components that contribute to BN also fnction in other essential way, specifically deposit control and debris dispersion.
Me either, but I asked years ago, curiosity got the best of me. I was warned against it. I bought the stuff to coat bullets for 1000 yard F-Class shooting. I asked about MoS2 as well, same answer.
I used to use LM MoS2 in my car/snowblowers/lawnmover at half doses and I used it at work at LM recommend dose in our CAT pumps that run our humidification system. One pump is run at 1725 rpm and another is on an A/C motor drive for variable rpm as that feeds multi room small sprayers. The latter was the problem pump as it had some low rpm and I wanted the moly to aid in wear at those lower rpm levels it would hit. I used LM moly in both pumps. The moly only helped a little bit in the "sometimes" low rpm pump.
I use Summit Industrial Oils in Texas (Kluber company) for our group 5 rotary screw air compressor oils. With Summit, you have 100% access to anyone in their company. I have talked couple times to the president. For my wear issue, I was pushed right to their lead R&D chemist. I told him what oil I was using at the time and that I use LM moly at the correct recommend value per oil oz amount used. First thing out of his mouth was " I bet you are having seal leaks" I said how did you know that, thinking it was the oil he was talking about. He said it's not the oil, it is the class of moly you are using, it is horribly hard on seals. Once a year I would have to put in a new main seal. I even went as far as to get another top named seal thinking CAT's seals were cheap. Still the same leak on both pumps. I excepted this as a CAT issue and not what I was putting in my oil.
I dumped my LM oil that day and put in new oil and 1 week later I received their recommended oil for my issue and in the last 3 years I have not had a single seal leak. I went from 300 hr dumps and seal leaks to 500hr dump times with zero oil leaks. Needless to say I won't put additives in my oil anymore other then AT-205 re-seal at half the recommended every 2 years.
Not saying not to use LM moly, (I use it at work for sliding oil additive on a paper drill slider Gibbs) just stating my issue with LM moly and an R&D industrial oil chemist's opinion. 3 years later he suggestion was right in my case.
I use Summit Industrial Oils in Texas (Kluber company) for our group 5 rotary screw air compressor oils. With Summit, you have 100% access to anyone in their company. I have talked couple times to the president. For my wear issue, I was pushed right to their lead R&D chemist. I told him what oil I was using at the time and that I use LM moly at the correct recommend value per oil oz amount used. First thing out of his mouth was " I bet you are having seal leaks" I said how did you know that, thinking it was the oil he was talking about. He said it's not the oil, it is the class of moly you are using, it is horribly hard on seals. Once a year I would have to put in a new main seal. I even went as far as to get another top named seal thinking CAT's seals were cheap. Still the same leak on both pumps. I excepted this as a CAT issue and not what I was putting in my oil.
I dumped my LM oil that day and put in new oil and 1 week later I received their recommended oil for my issue and in the last 3 years I have not had a single seal leak. I went from 300 hr dumps and seal leaks to 500hr dump times with zero oil leaks. Needless to say I won't put additives in my oil anymore other then AT-205 re-seal at half the recommended every 2 years.
Not saying not to use LM moly, (I use it at work for sliding oil additive on a paper drill slider Gibbs) just stating my issue with LM moly and an R&D industrial oil chemist's opinion. 3 years later he suggestion was right in my case.
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The seal leaks make sense to me. I look at it this way. If MoS2 was good in oil the majors would have been all over it, as well as the well respected boutique oil blenders, they aren't. That says enough to me. They use moly, but not MoS2. This horse gets dragged out of the barn and beaten from time to time, I guess it's time again.
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Exactly. Between this and recent posts here about "viscosity tailoring" at home, I think some people here need to take a deep breath and understand that the oil is already a balanced formula that means specific performance targets.
We are not beating XOM and Shell at their own game, from our personal garage.
And what will a UOA show? High Mo...duh?
Who knows, high metal count(s) from it being a bad idea? I’m no chemist nor do I play one on the internet.
I have several UOAs with LM MoS2 in my oil that can be found around here and they show what you'd expect, high moly in otherwise normal UOAs for my engine. I can't see why this would be any different.
Edit. Seal leaking is a new one w/r to using LM MoS2. I've not read of anyone having that issue using it before and I certainly haven't having run this multiple times in several of my cars.
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Thanks to you people for all the informative replies. After reading, it seems to be a waste of time and effort.
I decided to get the LM motor oil saver instead of the Ceratec or the powder idea after watching decent results on a Project Farm video on YT.
Mild oil burning is the core issue possibly due to worn piston rings or bad valve stem seals. I'll add it and see if it makes a difference in the overall oil consumption. If not, I'll be switching to a 5w-40 oil from 5w-30 to keep it running indefinitely.
I decided to get the LM motor oil saver instead of the Ceratec or the powder idea after watching decent results on a Project Farm video on YT.
Mild oil burning is the core issue possibly due to worn piston rings or bad valve stem seals. I'll add it and see if it makes a difference in the overall oil consumption. If not, I'll be switching to a 5w-40 oil from 5w-30 to keep it running indefinitely.
MolaKule
Staff member
I would advise against it and I think many people have forgotten the distinction between Moly chemistry's.
There are two three types of moly:
1) Powdered Moly MoS2
2.) a colloidal suspension of MoS2 powders in a carrier, usually used in grease formulations,
3.) soluble moly or MoDTC and MoDTP. The MoDTC is the most used soluble moly in PCMO formulations with MoDTP used in gear lube formulations.
MoDTC is already a component of the PI package in most PCMOs these days.
"First, I think some viewers are confusing the MoS2 powders that are suspended in an oil carrier (from OTC and third party shelf-space takers) and MoDTC, which is a molybdenum atom combined with sulfur, oxygen, and carbon atoms to make a Molybdenum DiThioCarbamate (MoDTC) molecule, which is an oil soluble moly version. As explained above, MoDTC is very synergistic with ZDDP in that they aid each other when combined.
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jpcc.0c02211
The MoDTC still forms sheets from the little platelets at the surface to reduce friction and in larger dosages, will form an even thicker set of platelets to act as an anti-wear additive, aiding ZDDP.
The only way to measure MoDTC's contribution is via friction modification tests and anti-wear tests (e,g. , the Plint reciprocating wear ring machine). Friction reduction may show up as a fraction of a percentage increase in mpg for tightly controlled mpg (fuel economy) tests.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/molybdenum-dithiocarbamate
Later research has shown that MoDTC, along with the addition of organic friction modifiers, result in another synergistic FM/AW combo in terms of further reducing friction and wear for low viscosity lubricants."
Question: What is molybdenum’s real role?
Wouldn't using the properly rated oil at the OEM specified interval would make this failure mode mostly non existent - or is that incorrect? I am clueless mostly on engine oil chemistry so I am here to be educated. The premise of the OP is does Moly help with Friction wear / prolong engine life...
bobistheoilguy.com
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