Moly - Who needs it????

[novadude]

** flame suit on ** On this board, I see people getting all hot & bothered about motor oils that contain moly. However, I have also seen great analysis results from oils that DON'T contain moly (Chevron Supreme for one). If some of these group II dinos do so well without moly, who needs it??? Someone show me something to justify paying $1.69 or so for a dino w/ moly, instead of paying $1.08/qt. for Chevron.

 

[MolaKule]

novadude, No flame here, except in the fireplace. It's -8 here with 15" of snow in Doo-Dah land. What you will be seeing is a number of oils being blended with other FM's and AW additives that aren't moly. When any oil company or blender finds a new AW, FM, anti-oxidant additive that is cheaper than ZDDP or Moly, they will use it. Enter the new Borates (as esters) and the new calcium carbonate overbased solid additves that MAY do the same thing. I don't think anyone but Scaheffer's is married to moly exclusively, and Amsoil to ZDDP. Redline, Mobil, and others are using various combinations of these new additives and experimenting daily to find the best additive at the lowest cost.

 

[Pablo]

Flame suit not needed. The jury is very much still out. If someone says for sure that this or that oil is better because it has moly....don't buy it. It's not that simple. Schaefers is a good oil, has moly, but I suspect it'd be OK without moly...but the moly does help...I think. Redline has LOTS of moly...jury is out if this VERY EXPENSIVE oil is really all that great because of it's moly content. Amsoil doesn't use Moly. Would it be even better with Moly? maybe, maybe not.... Of course you should know the organic complex of the Mo additive.....

 

[ShootingStar]

"Topic: Moly - Who needs it????" I do. I like it. I want it. I NEED it.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by ShootingStar: "Topic: Moly - Who needs it????" I do. I like it. I want it. I NEED it.

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Are you related to me? I can' t sleep without my moly! I wish they put moly in my Centrum Vitamins!

 

[mebanditws6]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

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Originally posted by ShootingStar: "Topic: Moly - Who needs it????" I do. I like it. I want it. I NEED it.

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Are you related to me? I can' t sleep without my moly! I wish they put moly in my Centrum Vitamins!

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Wait till you get older with clogged arteries then you'll be ordering some auto-rx to clean your system out. Jason

 

[MustangGT]

I think that if your using a conventional oil that is changed every 3,000 miles I don't think that "moly" is going to make or break your engine, there are lots of cars out there with 150,000+ miles that have never had moly in them and they still run strong, a good quality oil (regardless of moly or no moly) will do fine in a properly maintained engine. I do believe that chevron supreme/havoline are good oils that will provide good results even though they don't contain moly.

 

[Bub]

Hey Patman Centrum may not contain moly but it does have molybdenum, calcium, and boron. Sounds like a good additive package to me. Bub

 

[Patman]

Hey Bub, you're right, my Centrum does have moly in it! 25mcg of it! As well as zinc, phosphorus, calcium, manganese, iron, copper, potassium and even silicon! Looking at the back of my vitamin bottle looks like a bad oil analysis report! But seriously, there are a lot of good oils that don't use moly, however with the latest formulas out there, tons of oil companies are now jumping on the moly bandwagon, so obviously they believe it's the way to go. Sooner or later Amsoil will too!

 

[Stealth26]

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Originally posted by Bub: Hey Patman Centrum may not contain moly but it does have molybdenum, calcium, and boron. Sounds like a good additive package to me. Bub

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Just realized...I pay more attention to the stuff I put into my car than I do into myself. As for the moly, I used Mobil 1 Tri for about 12k and Pennzoil dino the 6k after that. Now on a non-moly dino...can't tell any difference. Will be switching back to Pennzoil/GTX next change just for the peace of mind...I guess.

 

[GeorgeCLS]

One aspect of moly additized oil is that the anti-wear component is there irrespective of temperature. Most anti-wear additives are temperature activated. i.e. it takes 'heat' to make them effective. With moly, the protection is there immediately, irrespective of temperature, providing very high levels of extreme pressure protection. Any lubricant that contains high quality moly in any amount is going to provide a higher level of EP additization compared with a lubricant that does not contain moly. It is that simple. George Morrison, STLE CLS

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by GeorgeCLS: One aspect of moly additized oil is that the anti-wear component is there irrespective of temperature. Most anti-wear additives are temperature activated. i.e. it takes 'heat' to make them effective. With moly, the protection is there immediately, irrespective of temperature, providing very high levels of extreme pressure protection. Any lubricant that contains high quality moly in any amount is going to provide a higher level of EP additization compared with a lubricant that does not contain moly. It is that simple. George Morrison, STLE CLS

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According to MolaKule in this thread, it actually takes higher temps/higher loads for moly to kick in to EP mode than it does for ZDDP. [ February 24, 2003, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: G-Man II ]

 

[MolaKule]

As a friction modifier (FM) both ZDDP and moly are there at all temps. When high temps caused by high pressure loads are present, that's when they kick into the AW mode. Moly takes over at temps where ZDDP is no longer effective.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule: As a friction modifier (FM) both ZDDP and moly are there at all temps. When high temps caused by high pressure loads are present, that's when they kick into the AW mode. Moly takes over at temps where ZDDP is no longer effective.

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This raises an interesting question: If the oil doesn't have any ZDDP (or very little), does that mean that "extreme pressure" must reach a more "critical" stage as far as heat/pressure before the moly will plate up and prevent metal to metal wear? If that's the case, it would seem ZDDP would be better since it would plate up before the situation gets so "critical."

 

[ShootingStar]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

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Originally posted by ShootingStar: "Topic: Moly - Who needs it????" I do. I like it. I want it. I NEED it.

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Are you related to me? I can' t sleep without my moly! I wish they put moly in my Centrum Vitamins!

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Patman, You don't get the REAL flavor of the moly in your vitimins. I start each day with a little shot of Schaeffer's #132 on my Cheerios. MMmmm...

 

[MolaKule]

G-Man, From the charts and the SEM data I have seen, there is little bit of overlap on the low temp AW "kick-in" for moly and the high temp AW "kick-out" for ZDDP. Kindaofa step process. I would prefer both since one would take over at the lower temps and then you would have a process "reserve" for the higher end. In fact, some of the ZDDP molecules provides some of the film activation for MoTDC.

 

[dragboat]

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Originally posted by GeorgeCLS: Any lubricant that contains high quality moly in any amount is going to provide a higher level of EP additization compared with a lubricant that does not contain moly. It is that simple. George Morrison, STLE CLS

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I will certainly agree with the not quite high quality portion of the post but the certain type moly used in formulation. I have seen it fall out of the add pack on the store shelf in a couple OTC oils that are somewhat popular here. I have waited until a analysis came back to confirm my beliefs if a car is not driven hard Moly is not needed in formulation. Some Race motors using a certain oil I have noticed corrosion on tear down confirming my beliefs that the moly's that are bonded with sulphur and or are of the Disulphide type are not for me.Or maybe they are all bonded with sulpur but to different degrees in how and types? When is the last time you have seen a Euro long drain oil with Moly in the formulation? Anyway I just yesterday received a 4300 mile analysis back of Mobil SS 10/30 and it appears that around 0- 5ppm was uptook " he he,took a sample and continued the run for 3k more miles,now into the next interval of three weeks and analysis of the 7300 mile oil not back and just recieved the first one". This car is driven very easy as a daily commuter-hiway only and parked on weekends.Speeds are from 60-80 MPH and rpm never over 3700 while cruise speed at 75 mph is 2700rpm " twin cam 4 cylinder automatic and 6500 rpm redline" It went on a 1k mile trip over the Thankgiving Holidays with me driving. Speeds up to 105 mph but the rpm remained relativety low and was set on 80-90 for a hour on two separate runs. Now,another analysis where it was all hiway in my mothers car,I asked here if she ever stepped on it and she said no but cruise speed was high at times so go figure? I know now who uses certain moly's but a few I have no earthly idea yet. One Mo it seems takes more heat to activate and I think it to be the Mobil variety. Heres my Mothers 3610 mile all hiway analyisis,lotsa moly was used yet the motor was already plated? Go figure.But something was weird with this oil change and analysis from the git-go,later on that topic. http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000289 When the disulphide type moly drops out it can start the sludging problem under certain use/conditions. I have read much about this and spoke to a few in the know,,geeze no-one agrees 100 percent and I'm not talking forum . Actual personell in the labs making these oils for us and the remarks made to me were not competitive in nature about different moly's. So schools not out for me at least concerning moly,in fact I am backing away from it slowly until I learn more.I think the Mo used in the SS and Trop Artic Turbo to be safe and friendly,,I need to find out more in terms of what others are using and it's difficult for old dragboat because he's not a chemist and Mo is not shown on any MSDS's :)And all companies are of the hush,hush types. We need more info on who's using what IMO and it's difficult to obtain. But something is telling me the Mobil synlube runs on the hydrodynamic part better than a dino or PAO blend and that Mo will not bond to very well machined parts and or bearings that are in like new condition. Just not sure about it all yet. GF-4 will tell us more possibly when new types Moly are used and older types exposed? [ February 27, 2003, 04:50 AM: Message edited by: dragboat ]