Moly vs non-Moly oils

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yowps3

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I have noticed Molybdenum in oils in the ranges of 800ppm, 50-100ppm and many with zero.

Reading on the rather significant benefits of Moly, what is in place in oils with zero moly? Would it be fair to assume that oils that contains moly are better than ones with none?
 
there are several types the type mobil uses requires a much lower amount.
Moly isnt magic. there are downsides with too much moly. Other additives can substitute for Moly in a fully formulated product, but maybe not as cheaply.
 
There is an additive, Lubro Moly Mos2 which is an old-school "gets circulated when the oil is heated up" kind of additive that.. Truthfully isn't really necessary, but would provide a boost of moly.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Molybdenum the additive is expensive.

I am not an expert on the different kinds of moly.
 
There aren’t too many oils out there these days with zero moly. LiquiMoly oil is one despite the name.

There are tons of threads about this. The Motor Oil University here on this website is also a good read on molybdenum and other additives.
 
"Better" is always subjective. I have seen no data that suggests an API full synthetic right off Walmart's shelf with a good filter and OCI will do any "better" than a comparable "X" full synth within the same parameters. Maybe it's fun to talk about and research, but at the end of the day, and over 150k miles, it doesn't matter. Maintenance will always be more important than comparing Moly of 40 ppm to Moly of 60 ppm.
 
PimTac said:
There aren’t too many oils out there these days with zero moly. LiquiMoly oil is one despite the name.

There are tons of threads about this. The Motor Oil University here on this website is also a good read on molybdenum and other additives.
Click to expand...
I agree, most oils seem to have it now. A few years ago there were a few brands that seemed to substitute sodium in place of moly, Valvoline being one, but they since have changed and use a dose of moly.

One of the highest constants of moly I’ve seen in oil is Shell Rotella Gas Truck. Before that Toyota Genuine Motor Oil used to be high, but they dropped it quite a bit over the years.
 
yowps3 said:
I have noticed Molybdenum in oils in the ranges of 800ppm, 50-100ppm and many with zero.

Reading on the rather significant benefits of Moly, what is in place in oils with zero moly? Would it be fair to assume that oils that contains moly are better than ones with none?
Click to expand...

It's hard to really say whether one oil is better or worse with or without moly additives. Molybdenum dithiocarbamates are added to engine oils as friction reducers and to compliment anti-wear properties of ZDDP and EP additives. MoDTC also acts as a good anti-oxidant and is proven effective at reducing LSPI events in higher concentrations. However, MoDTC contains sulfur which is limited by API. A certain brand may decide to reduce or eliminate moly from the formula in order to make room for other sulfur containing additives that may be more beneficial to their intended use of the oil.

There's also organic moly compounds that contain no sulfur, are very effective at friction reduction even at lower temperatures, but are also very expensive making them typically out of the question for the common API oils on the shelf trying to be competitive price wise. Vanderbilt's Molyvan 855 would fall in this group.

There's other friction modifiers out there that can perform the job friction reduction job of moly at lower concentrations and without adding sulfur or phosphorus. Titanium and antimony additives would be in this group. There's also ashless additives such as ionic liquids that are making their way on the scene. Much like the organic moly compounds though, they are rather expensive, and likely won't find widespread use in common API oils for quite sometime unless drastic changes in API requirements accelerates their use.
 
JT20 said:
There is an additive, Lubro Moly Mos2 which is an old-school "gets circulated when the oil is heated up" kind of additive that.. Truthfully isn't really necessary, but would provide a boost of moly.

Correct me if I am wrong, but Molybdenum the additive is expensive.

I am not an expert on the different kinds of moly.
Click to expand...
I'm not a big fan of adding oil treatments.
Not only does it disturb the intended formulation of the oil but it also probably contributes to increased deposits as it doesn't dissolve into the oil and turns abrasive.
 
So, can moly increase horsepower? There is an engine oil company in Australia called Nulon that claims that it does, they even dyno tested their oil compared to some others a few years ago now. They use Moly DTC.
 
adams355 said:
So, can moly increase horsepower? There is an engine oil company in Australia called Nulon that claims that it does, they even dyno tested their oil compared to some others a few years ago now. They use Moly DTC.
Click to expand...

If there's good synergy between the moly and other additives, it can increase power. We're not talking much, of course. Maybe 0.5-1.0% in the best case.

If there's no synergy, and it's competing with other additives rather than complimenting, it can actually have the opposite effect. This is why I do not recommend oil supplements for any reason.
 
As Smokey Yunick(RIP) used to quote when he wrote for Popular Mechanics,"No need for engine additives anymore.Modern engine oils has everything you need already in there."In the 70's,80's,and 90's Popular Mechanics was my favorite crash and read magazine.Now there is no difference between Popular Science and Popular Mechanics.What a shame.
 
You don't want to be using moly if you have any DLC coated parts in your engine. A lot of aftermarket engine parts are DLC coated not sure if any of the big names are using them from the factory. Moly DTC causes increased wear to DLC coated parts.
 
adams355 said:
You don't want to be using moly if you have any DLC coated parts in your engine. A lot of aftermarket engine parts are DLC coated not sure if any of the big names are using them from the factory. Moly DTC causes increased wear to DLC coated parts.
Click to expand...
What's your source on that? Moly has a Mohs hardness of about 5.5. I was unable to find a Mohs hardness for DLC, but considering it's "diamond-like", and diamonds score a 10 on the Mohs scale, I have a hard time believing your statement. A scientific study would be nice reading if what you say is true, because lots of non-API "race" oils have TONS of moly in them.
 
Most recent cars and engines I've owned have had "moly infused" wear zones on the
piston skirt thrust areas. My old H.S. chemistry prof. used to say, " like dissolves like"
So, I was guessing highly moly-laden lubricants wouldn't be helpful in the piston skirt area and maybe deleterious.
When I was thinking that way I looked for oils that skewed towards high Boron / lower MoDTC

Back then that was QS and Supertech, iirc.
 
adams355 said:
You don't want to be using moly if you have any DLC coated parts in your engine. A lot of aftermarket engine parts are DLC coated not sure if any of the big names are using them from the factory. Moly DTC causes increased wear to DLC coated parts.
Click to expand...

Considering NHRA Pro Stock and NASCAR cup engines all have DLC coated parts and their oils contain 1200+ ppm Mo, I'm not buying this one.
 
SubieRubyRoo said:
What's your source on that? Moly has a Mohs hardness of about 5.5. I was unable to find a Mohs hardness for DLC, but considering it's "diamond-like", and diamonds score a 10 on the Mohs scale, I have a hard time believing your statement. A scientific study would be nice reading if what you say is true, because lots of non-API "race" oils have TONS of moly in them.
Click to expand...
www.sciencedirect.com

Analysis of wear behavior and graphitization of hydrogenated DLC under boundary lubricant with MoDTC

Diamond-like carbon (DLC) with high hardness and low friction has been applied to automotive parts. In this study, the significant wear of hydrogenate…
www.sciencedirect.com www.sciencedirect.com

You can offset the wear with higher amounts of ZDDP
 
After reading the article, I guess I still have a problem understanding their "conclusion", which is still just a guess: graphitization. Here's why:

Science Direct: Graphitization is a microstructural change that occurs in carbon or low-alloy steels exposed to temperatures of about 425–550°C for several thousand hours.
Click to expand...
The test did not expose the parts to temps of 425-550*C, let alone for several thousand hours. It appears they still have some discovery to do, because, at least to my untrained eye, the conclusion does not make sense from the data. It's like saying cast iron wore out a diamond cutting bit and didn't harm the iron.
 
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