I was very tempted to switch from Mobile 1 v-twin 20/50 to mobile 1 synthetic 15w/50 but the more recent UOA/VOA show it has less additives then a few years ago.
Not saying it is still not an option. However, it looks no different then other options where as before it stood out.
Did I miss something? This is all new to me so please correct me, with some BITOG data of course ;), if this is incorrect.
Mobile 1 Synthetic 15w/50 - Not what it used to be?
- Thread starter NorCalHD
- Start date
Why is it always the newbies that ask whether "isn't what it used to be"? Generally it is because of some supposed base stock change, but this time it is "less additives" per a UOA "a few years ago".
Which additives are lower, and specifically how do those lower additives make it "not what it used to be"? If you can't answer that then I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know anyone on here who can read a $35 Blackstone UOA and then divine future performance of an oil. You say it "stood out", how did it stand out? What additives were you looking at that made it a physically and chemically superior oil than others?
Did the Mobil 1 (btw not "Mobile) oil you're looking at lose some motorcycle certification or license that you need?
Originally Posted by kschachn
Why is it always the newbies that ask whether "isn't what it used to be"? Generally it is because of some supposed base stock change, but this time it is "less additives" per a UOA "a few years ago".
Which additives are lower, and specifically how do those lower additives make it "not what it used to be"? If you can't answer that then I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know anyone on here who can read a $35 Blackstone UOA and then divine future performance of an oil. You say it "stood out", how did it stand out? What additives were you looking at that made it a physically and chemically superior oil than others?
Did the Mobil 1 (btw not "Mobile) oil you're looking at lose some motorcycle certification or license that you need?
Originally Posted by kschachn
Why is it always the newbies that ask whether "isn't what it used to be"? Generally it is because of some supposed base stock change, but this time it is "less additives" per a UOA "a few years ago".
Which additives are lower, and specifically how do those lower additives make it "not what it used to be"? If you can't answer that then I wouldn't worry about it. I don't know anyone on here who can read a $35 Blackstone UOA and then divine future performance of an oil. You say it "stood out", how did it stand out? What additives were you looking at that made it a physically and chemically superior oil than others?
Did the Mobil 1 (btw not "Mobile) oil you're looking at lose some motorcycle certification or license that you need?
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Even though you ignored the question, let's ask it again. What certifications did the "old" VOA have that the new oil does not meet? If it meets all the same certifications, NOTHING is going to "stand out" between the old Mobil 15W50, the new Mobil 15W50, along with any other oil that meets the same certifications, as long as those certifications cover the engine you're going to put it in. Thinking that additional levels of a given element over what's required to help an oil meet the certifications are going to make a statistically significant shift in the life of a given engine is a fool's errand, and you'll never ever be able to quantify it.
As additive technology advances, it's logical for them to need "less" of that on a UOA. If, for example, an oil "used to use" 500 ppm of MoS2 as the moly additive, and now it uses trinuclear Moly but only has say 80 ppm, the window shoppers will say "Oh they cheapened the oil, I'm not using that ever again!", while the actual performance of the trinuclear Moly is significantly better than the MoS2. Which goes back to the original response to your question which you wholeheartedly ignored: a $35 OA is going to tell you as much about how "good" an oil is as sticking your head up a bull's tail end will tell you how the t-bone is going to taste.
NorCal,
I apologize for the above, I chalk it up to the stress of the times, or whatever.
In any case, M1, 15W-50 is still quite a robust oil and it works perfectly in many racing applications. I'm a turbocharged engine guy and use it regularly. If you are worried about lower zinc and phosphorous (ZDDP) , don't be. The 15W-50 contains plenty to do the job, and a whole bunch more than more common automotive oils. Remember that 1000PPM is sufficient and any more than that is not "more helpful" . In this case, the job of ZDDP is to form a protective coating that exists only to reduce wear when metal to metal contact occurs. Viscosity of the oil must be sufficient to avoid that contact, lest an engine self destruct. Put another way, the additives are a part of the entire package of performance.
The M1 has a HTHS (cP viscosity at 150c or 302f) of 4.5. Quite simply, it retains excellent viscosity at very high temperatures. Furthermore, the oil's pour point is still quite low, at -39f.
That's enough information to tell you that the oil's base stock is a quality synthetic product that works under a very wide range of temperatures. If however, the engine you operate is air cooled, has very high oil temperatures, relatively poor cylinder dimensional control during operation and highly loaded components due to a series of mechanical compromises, you may in fact need a higher viscosity oil.
So if you are asking if 15W-50 is as capable a product under the above conditions, as M1, 20W-50 V-Twin, the answer is no. The motorcycle oil is even higher in viscosity, the characteristic that might be better for the above mentioned engine.
My Lycoming aircraft engine requires a 50 viscosity oil here in South Florida. Maybe even a 60 viscosity oil. Trying to run that engine on something like a 15W-50 oil would result in high oil consumption.
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Originally Posted by Cujet
NorCal,
I apologize for the above, I chalk it up to the stress of the times, or whatever.
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If I remember correctly,Mobil 1 15W50 *red cap* was the holy grail of 50 weights. What exactly was the difference between the old red cap 15W50 and current silver cap 15W50?
Either one will meet and exceed your mileage expectations when compared to HD additives levels of 958 Ph and 1231 Z...
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/04/full-45634-43208-m15w50autom20w50v2.jpg)
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Originally Posted by BusyLittleShop
Either one will meet and exceed your mileage expectations when compared to HD additives levels of 958 Ph and 1231 Z...
Instead of a vague "less additives" per a UOA "a few years ago", explain which additives, what they do, what is a effective treat rate for the additives, and how the oil is now "not what it used to be" because of the lower levels. These are the relevant questions to consider. How much of a zinc or phosphorus containing compound is required for the application?
Also consider that if the oil meets or obtains the required certification, license or approval then no $35 UOA is going to tell you that one such oil is better than another, or that one has degraded. Also consider that unless the additive has a metal ion then it will not necessarily show up on a UOA. Beyond that, a UOA does not show "additives" it shows the elements that composed any and all of the compounds that were present prior to the ICP decomposition.
Again, a $35 UOA does not predict the future performance of a motor oil. What you get from such a UOA are statements like "wow look at that slug of moly", "that's a stout add pack" or "wow look at that dose of boron!" This is not how motor oils are evaluated. Do you know how they are?
Gig me for calling you a newbie (you are though, aren't you?) but the rest of my post were relevant technical questions.
Originally Posted by NorCalHD
Oooh, some one with a lot of post counts being condescending. Yet, too lazy to disprove my question.
Only you brought up certifications? And, only you said performance? Trying to deflect? Or just confused?
Once again, here is what I said. Take your time and try to comprehend this time:
"Not saying it is still not an option. However, it looks no different then other options where as before it stood out."
Advertised:
Phosphorous is 1200 ppm and ZINC is 1300 ppm
VOA (their are more VOA and UOA if you are able to find them)
VOA for Mr Condescending
Update: Posted the above, reread it, and realized how awful it sounds. Apologies...
4WD
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
All you can do is compare recent VOAs. Doesn't matter what oil formulations were 10 years ago unless you have 10 year old oil laying around. Why not just use a JASO speced oil ... trying to save cost?
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Even though you ignored the question, let's ask it again. What certifications did the "old" VOA have that the new oil does not meet? If it meets all the same certifications, NOTHING is going to "stand out" between the old Mobil 15W50, the new Mobil 15W50, along with any other oil that meets the same certifications, as long as those certifications cover the engine you're going to put it in. Thinking that additional levels of a given element over what's required to help an oil meet the certifications are going to make a statistically significant shift in the life of a given engine is a fool's errand, and you'll never ever be able to quantify it.
As additive technology advances, it's logical for them to need "less" of that on a UOA. If, for example, an oil "used to use" 500 ppm of MoS2 as the moly additive, and now it uses trinuclear Moly but only has say 80 ppm, the window shoppers will say "Oh they cheapened the oil, I'm not using that ever again!", while the actual performance of the trinuclear Moly is significantly better than the MoS2. Which goes back to the original response to your question which you wholeheartedly ignored: a $35 OA is going to tell you as much about how "good" an oil is as sticking your head up a bull's tail end will tell you how the t-bone is going to taste.
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Anything from M1 isn't what it used to be... it still kills me to see the fan base M1 products have on here, many of these guys still think this stuff is the holy grail of oils... it is NOTHING like it used to be and is mediocre oil at best. No better than Pennzoil, Castrol or any other Group III "syn" offerings.
4WD
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Only problem with your standard nonsense is there are many formulas containing various combinations of base stock and additives because they have all that. And they have many OEM approvals regardless of combinations.
M1 and Delvac continue to be FF in high end products with or without your approval.
Yet you constantly act like they are all one whatever … even have that strange BS in your signature.
Nobody here needs your snarky comments you see AS help. You sir, are a classic troll in every sense.
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Anything from M1 isn't what it used to be... it still kills me to see the fan base M1 products have on here, many of these guys still think this stuff is the holy grail of oils... it is NOTHING like it used to be and is mediocre oil at best. No better than Pennzoil, Castrol or any other Group III "syn" offerings.
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Anything from M1 isn't what it used to be... it still kills me to see the fan base M1 products have on here, many of these guys still think this stuff is the holy grail of oils... it is NOTHING like it used to be and is mediocre oil at best. No better than Pennzoil, Castrol or any other Group III "syn" offerings.
4WD
$50 site donor 2023
Originally Posted by tig1
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Anything from M1 isn't what it used to be... it still kills me to see the fan base M1 products have on here, many of these guys still think this stuff is the holy grail of oils... it is NOTHING like it used to be and is mediocre oil at best. No better than Pennzoil, Castrol or any other Group III "syn" offerings.
Racin4ds, what oil do you use in your vehicles? You have successfully called out Mobil1 and most of the other major store brand oils as mediocre... So what's the hot ticket?
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