Mobile 1 5W/30, 2642 miles, 2008 Mazdaspeed3

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
572
Location
Ohio
What, specifically, would be the most likely source of copper?

IMG_1547.jpg
 
Last edited:
Wrist pin bushing (small end of con-rod). Crank journal bearings also wear down to a layer of copper.
 
Last edited:
I would venture to say that the M1 5w30 has let your bearings down. You're down to the copper layer. M1 5w30 + relatively high load per bearing + turbo + fuel = fail. As it stands now, the oil got shredded to bits by fuel, load and heat and is now well into the 20 grade. No GDI turbo engine should have to rely on a low AW, viscosity unstable 20grade, that's practically the worse deal it could get. Try something more robust maybe?
 
I wouldnt panic just yet. Check in with some of the Mazda3 forums. This may or may not be normal for a car that started a run with 5,600 miles on the clock.

Copper could come from anti-seize compound, bearings, oil coolers etc. I dont see enough of the other elements there to make me think that came from tri-metal bearings.

If this seems abnormal for those cars you might want to consider hiring Terry Dyson for a consultation.
 
With only 8000 miles on the engine, i wonder if it is antiseize compound or even some copper from the head gaskets.
 
Originally Posted By: ItsuMitsubishi
I would venture to say that the M1 5w30 has let your bearings down. You're down to the copper layer. M1 5w30 + relatively high load per bearing + turbo + fuel = fail. As it stands now, the oil got shredded to bits by fuel, load and heat and is now well into the 20 grade. No GDI turbo engine should have to rely on a low AW, viscosity unstable 20grade, that's practically the worse deal it could get. Try something more robust maybe?


Down to copper layer!! If so where is the top layer, Pb?
I doubt the source is the bearings.
Every new car I have bought I obseved lots of copper in the oil.
Is this car a timing belt or chain driven?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
Looks great. Mobil 1 is the best!
thumbsup2.gif


If it's wearing his engine out like you always post why isn't Alum,chrom and lead elevated also? why only iron wearing? because it's not he has other issues like posted above going on.
 
I am sure that oil is too thin for a turbo application.
I don't know much about the Speed3 specifically, but why not try some 0w40 M1 or something? Or even GC.
 
I used 5W30 simply because it's what is recommended by Mazda for this engine.
 
Originally Posted By: CaspianM

...
Is this car a timing belt or chain driven?


Timing chain.
 
Originally Posted By: jjjxlr8
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Does it have a oil cooler?
21.gif


No.


Ask Blackstone to rerun the sample. If it comes back the same, then do another UOA in 3k miles. If you have the same results then switch oils and do a UOA on the 2ND run of the new oil.

If you THEN have the same results, then I'd think about some professional help and get the mfg into the mix.

Bill
 
you shouldn have changed oil yet
you should have left the oil that the engine brought from factory at least up until now, but aparently you changed already.
curiously you changed with the best oil that one could use to breakin M1 syntetic

in this case its even true becauae you used a A1/B1 oil
that has no antifriction aditive
and M1 is the good at cleaning oil debri

that engine must be in good condition now as if you had made 15k miles with the factory oil fill

so now upgrade to the best W30 that you can find
or change brand a good 5W30 bp or castrol or equivalent
redline PP
wtv

to be on the safe side i wont continue with M1

ah
another point what seems to agravate the problem with M1 is that probably this M1 colided with the remains of the previous oil

the fuel is derived of the break in process... might indicate that you are still in breakin

so i recommend is to put a good 5W30
and start banging the engine with good sessions of WOT and down reving while engaged (assuming that you have a manual)

this is what you will be doing
http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm

i dont recomend doing it with this M1 because of the bearings wear ,, i would assume that you could have killed them because you cleaned the molibdenum that usualy Factory fills have that help the bearings to seat properly within proper clearances

fuel in oil means that you havent banged the engine properly during the miles (yet) i say yet because maybe.. maybe you are yet late to do it
because piston rings and cylinder walls are not worn yet
using a sintetic oil all

so now
after the first 10000 km you must do WOT and high rev sessions to allow finishing the break-in process as described in that page
this to cylinder walls and piston rings mainly .. before they become hardened by the heat-up cool-down of normal usage.

its normal to have oil consumption
you will have it once you start high reving the engine "properly"
 
from that on. use GC or equivalent

to mazda GC is its 2nd recomendation because they know its better than the 5W30...
this also means that you are supposed to have wear in the engine
its ok

but brands would like maybe too much why ... that is obvious
and also emission regulations ask that you do it due to to catalitic converters longevity

that CAT longevity is done by allowing wear to the engine
because the ZZDP level must be low. burned oil with good ZZDP
is what kills the cat

GC does a good job in what regards to that matter
it is non-volatil and protects from wear even with lower antifriction aditives levels

Amsoil too but amsoil cheats and, besides of having good aditive packages they add a generous amount of zzdp

so
change to GC and dont forget to WOT the engine from time to time (not constantly lol) in long road trips at least during the next 8000 miles. i mean like every week or 2.
 
This engine is still breaking in. I would do a series of WOT if you haven't already, to try and fully seat the rings. M1 5w30 seems to use a significant amount of VII if the viscosity is crashing that low. VII's and fuel seem to have issues, especially with some grades of M1. However, to meet the more strict GF-5 fuel economy requirements, apparently oil makers are going to be using more VII's to hit the mark.
 
Originally Posted By: ItsuMitsubishi
I would venture to say that the M1 5w30 has let your bearings down. You're down to the copper layer. M1 5w30 + relatively high load per bearing + turbo + fuel = fail. As it stands now, the oil got shredded to bits by fuel, load and heat and is now well into the 20 grade. No GDI turbo engine should have to rely on a low AW, viscosity unstable 20grade, that's practically the worse deal it could get. Try something more robust maybe?


If the bearings were worn to the copper there would be evidence of bearing material in the UOA, and the engine would be knocking. Engine would be shot. As it's a new engine maybe something to do with the turbo.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1

If the bearings were worn to the copper there would be evidence of bearing material in the UOA, and the engine would be knocking. Engine would be shot. As it's a new engine maybe something to do with the turbo.


But as you know there have been UOAs that show no problem (ie bearing material?) but the engine is damaged. Correct Tig?

That is why they are "useless"... (your words not mine)

(To the OP, I disagree with those 2 statements but this member posts that often)

I wanted to see where he is at...
whistle.gif
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top