Mobil1 Website Response - TBN Question

[red2rebel]

Mobil1 Website Response:

Thanks for your request. TBN, ASTM D 2896, mg KOH/g, typical, for both SAE 10W-30 and SAE 15W-50 is 11.
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11 is right up there with Amsoil. It would appear that Mobile is pretty close to an extended drain formula again. ANY COMMENTS?

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This is for the TRi-Synthetic Super Syn formula currently being marketed here in the USA. I only asked about the 10W-30 and 15W-50 so their answer reflects that. I posted their reply above.

Amsoil product still appears to be superior but it looks like Mobil1 is catching up. ANY COMMENTS?

 

[Brad]

Mobil 1 has always been a good product and ranked well with Amsoil.

SuperSyn seems to be a great oil thus far, but it's still fairly new. From some of the latest analysis I have seen from Amsoil tell me thier product quality has gone down hill.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

Red, you have a lot of reading to do. tbn does not qualify an oil as good or better than another.

 

[dragboat]

red2rebel/

I agree with Brad,the Mobil imo is superior in our analyis section

Brad some oils hold their TBN better than others,it's the total package and and how it looks at the end of the interval that I look at. Like a oil that starts at 8,runs 7500 miles and is still at 5 or so for an example only. I agree that the Mobil should go long drain intervals if all else is correct and the higher starting TBN will help to a point with that oil in particular

Fixing to try it myself

With the 10/30 SS in one car we have. I want to see low low wear metals,oh please, oh please let it happen I ask the higher Lubricant Power Above

If it does not happen,it will be removed pronto! I only want or need 6k miles with the ability to go more so I am not draining dead oil and pouring new oil on top of dead oil ,thats all I want!Besides low wear

[ September 23, 2002, 06:51 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[red2rebel]

quote:

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Originally posted by BOBISTHEOILGUY:
Red, you have a lot of reading to do. tbn does not qualify an oil as good or better than another.

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Yes Bob, I know. I have only posted here 2 times but do a lot of reading on this forum. My question was "is this impressive and/or relevant" as I know this number might drop with analysis at later intervals. I was hoping that someone would post analysis results or comments to show how this number "11" holds up over time or if it falls. Am I asking the right question?

 

[Al]

I'm sure you will find some answers here:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=3

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I'm sorry, didn't mean to come off short.

Red, Take a moment and read this.. It will explain more on how tbn works.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000045

 

[TooSlick]

Rebel2rebel,

Mobil 1 has always had a fairly high TBN ...however you have to look at the TBN retention over long drain intervals, which I think is Bob's point. Most of the oil analyses I've seen for Mobil 1 are for runs of 4000-6000 miles, so it's hard to say how the oil would hold up if you ran it another 5000-10,000 miles.

I admit to being some biased in this regard, since I've been running 12,000-15,000 mile drain intervals with Amsoil since 1978. Show me a bunch of folks doing this with Mobil 1 and I might be convinced.

TooSlick

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

I can show you a bunch of Schaeffers that does this. Fact is, in some of the comparisions, Schaeffers retention rate, even though it starts out with a lower tbn, actually retains as well or more than some. In this case, http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000053
This engine is very easy on oil but notice down near the bottom of this thread, there is also a comparision of mobil in a gas engine. Take note of the tbn retention vers mileage in that comparison. That particular engine is much harder on oils and the retention rate much harder to maintain. We have other gas engines that don't even come close to stressing the oil's tbn as much as that one did.

Point is, TBN factor is not a good way to determine a quality oil. Even though mobils didn't fair.

Mobil started with a tbn of 12, Schaeffers 8.3
So, Mobil, being a full synth, looked like a better choice over the Schaeffers 8.3 and it being a blend.

But as you do the analysis, you can see that even though mobil started out as a 12 tbn and inside of 4,300 miles was down to 5.6, and Schaeffers started out at 8.3 and dropped to a 3.6 with 9,000 miles, suggests mobil may not hold up as long in comparision to Schaeffers Blend at near half the cost.

See how the TBN #'s used as a guide to quality can really mis lead you?

 

[dragboat]

Bob,
Was that Mobil in the Chevy motor the Trysyn formulation? Looks to be with the low Moly,just curious about it

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Hey Mola and Quad which is it volume or density or is there anyway we can shrink people small enough to make a "journey into the journals" with very small micrometers and find out !

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Sounds like a job for Ms Frizzle and the kids on the Magic School Bus!

 

[buster]

Mobil 1 could be better, but it really doesn't need to as I see it. I think with the addition of the calcium we are seeing Mobil 1 have much better TBN retention which is what is important.

 

[satterfi]

I ran a TBN test on M1 after 12K miles in a '95 Explorer with 1/2qt make up at 7k. TBN was 8.5 using a Dexsil kit.

At least for that engine, M1 does a fair job.

 

[Terry]

Gman II, since you asked me specifically about why
I thought M1 could be better, Molekule helped quantify chemically some of those thoughts.

I'm sorry I couldn't get back to you with a more chemically adept answer !

Sorry I had to find another place to post it. Seems the range controller just stopped all gunfighting, darn. I was just brushing up on my formulas !!!!

You asked;

"Specifically, what is it about Mobil 1 that doesn't "impress" you? "


Molakule's answer is perfect;

" What could be better about Mobil 1? Here is my shopping list. The use of more esters, a longer lasting DD package, a better and more long-term AW/EP additive package, a lower volatility mix of varying POA viscosities."
DD = dispersant detergent package.
I'm with Mola on that.

Hey Mola and Quad which is it volume or density or is there anyway we can shrink people small enough to make a "journey into the journals" with very small micrometers and find out !

Quad your mixing up (obfuscating) the term UOA again be "pacific" dude.

In all seriousness board moderators and participants please let this discussion continue without the personal attacks so we can play out the science. If Quad is honest( willing to educate and learn ) we can all learn something. I can't do the math and I want to see where the math takes us.


Sorry Tony I couldn't resist !