Mobil1 satisfactory for Buttonwillow?

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41
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Seeing my post count, it's obvious im a newbie round these parts. However, just briefly browsing the top threads it looks like Mobil1 isnt the hot ticket like I thought it was. I found this forum while searching for info on comparing synthetic oils after I was told that Mobil1 5w-30 tends to sheer and as we know, thats bad for engine parts. So what im looking for are some opinions at this point whether or not you guys think my engine will experience some unnecessary wear if I continue to use the oil I am using. My car: 1990 Toyota Celica Engine: Recently swapped 1997 3.0L V6 from a Toyota Avalon/Camry/Solara/RX300/ES300. Toyota recommends 5W-30 and the engine holds a tad over 5 quarts. I'm really exited about the swap and this October I will be racing it at an open track event at Buttonwillow Raceway. To make things more interesting, it seems that these engine tends to sludge. Toyota claims this is due to poor customer maintenance(i.e. old farts in camry's not changing the oil on time). Whether or not this is true, I decided I didnt want to take any chances so ever since I got the engine running I have used 5w-30 synthetic oil from Mobil. In the realm of cheap synthetics like quaker state, castrol, etc., how does Mobil1 rank? I know its recommended by many top auto makers so it cant be that bad, right? How will it hold up on the track? Should I switch to 10w30? WOuld it be a good idea to install an oil cooler? Thanks for any advice you might have to offer. ~Adrian [ September 26, 2003, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: CelicaGT6 ]
 
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1,357
Location
California, USA
Go with 10W-30, California is not that cold. We have a 1998 Camry V6 with over 100,000 sludge-free miles on Chevron Supreme and Pennzoil 10W-30 dino.
 
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5,358
Location
Gone
CelicaGT6, First... [Welcome!] Second, M1 5W30 is NOT a bad oil for the street and I, frankly, would not worry about it shearing as long as you go reasonable intervals with it. I would NOT use it in competition, however. 10W30 would certainly be better, but if you will be running it in warm weather, I would use M1 15W50 if your engine can handle that viscosity. When competing a street driven vehicle or daily driver, my rule is, "Thicker is better," even if it does reduce horsepower and increase drag fractionally.
 
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34,394
Location
NJ
Your thinking of Trisynthetic. Mobil 1 is among the most shear stable oils you can buy right now. There is not one report on here of Mobil 1 SS thinning out. 15w-50 would be a better choice. But Redline, as John has stated would be my first pick. I havn't given up on it yet! [Smile] [ September 26, 2003, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
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9,448
Location
USA
I think that if I was doing an engine transplant I would run some Auto-Rx through it before I would even consider any track duty's! Just seems like starting with a clean engine would be a good idea. If I was going to race this then I would run M115W50 at the minium. My first choice would be Redline regualr street oils in 15W40 or 10W40. If it was a dedicated race car I would say 20W50.
 

Al

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19,256
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Elizabethtown, Pa
I agree with Buster and John Brown. An alternative (although not as good) would be a mix of 15W-50 and 10W-30. I think the 15W-50 is just too thick on the street.
 
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246
Location
Atlanta, GA
Given this is a toyota sludge monster, and that you will be racing it, I think I would go with Redline 5w-30 in this engine. It has performed well in this engine(search the UOA section) in street use. I think Redline in general does well in racing applications. So in your situation I think Redline is the ticket. Mobil is a very good oil, but this is an unusually tough engine on oil, and given you will be racing it, WOW, that's going to be really tough on the oil.
 
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903
Location
CA
If it were me, I'd drain the oil and refill with M1 15w50 before running around at Buttonwillow. If the thick stuff rubs you the wrong way, then go for MX4T. A change from a 5w30 to 10w30 for a track day is useless. Your engine is going to be running hot. With M1 15w50 can you worry about other things, like your tires, suspension, technique, passing slower cars, etc... Buttonwillow is fun track. I've never driven a car on it, but I take my bike there and have a blast. On a bike there is only one blind corner due to elevation, 'Lost Hill'. I've wondered if car drivers have more since they sit lower, especially around the 'Cotton Corners'. [ September 26, 2003, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: satterfi ]
 

CelicaGT6

Thread starter
Messages
41
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
i would imagine the reason toyota engineers chose 5-w30 as the oil of choice is for mileage concerns mostly. my concern with switching to a thicker oil though would be on startup mostly since the thinner oil will get onto the wearing surfaces easier. However, im also concerned that the heavier oil might be bad for various seals since it will require a higher pressure to push it through the engine. is this something I should be concerned about? I know that newer engines like these have higher tolerances than older ones so thats also a reason for the thinner oil, but on my old 4 cyl engine that I pulled i was running 20w-50 for a little while and the engine seemed to make a lot less noise and vibrate less too. John, i had never heard of Auto-Rx but I found the companies website and that stuff is pretty expensive! I did pull the valve cover on one of the banks to see how clean the engine was before i finished the swap:  - looked almost brand new so i think the engine was pretty well taken care of. regarding oil specifics.. as i understand it, its better to use an oil where the two numbers are closer to each other, right? so 10W-30 would be better than 5-W30. also, the first number is the viscosity of the oil when its cold and the second number is the hot viscosity, right? there is a subaru guy in my local car club who empthatic about the fact that redline evaporates and thus is not a good oil to use. is there any truth to that?
 
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211
Location
Mississauga, ON
CelicaGT6, if you MUST go with M1, I'd go with the 15W-50. I have a Honda Prelude VTEC and use Amsoil 10W-30. The Lude has a factory oil cooler. I took it to the track twice, and both times I lost 25PSI of pressure after only 5 laps of 6000-7500RPM driving due to the oil thinning (NOT shearing)under high temps / high loads. The normal pressure is 75PSI from 4000RPM onwards (the pump has a pressure relief valve that limits pressure to 75PSI). After 5 laps, I only had 50PSI max oil pressure, so I pulled out and let my oil cool down. A buddy of mine running Mobil1 15W-50 in his Lude never had this problem. Next year I'll run Amsoil 10W-40 and hopefully that'll cure the problem. Since Mobil1 is a thinner 30 weight oil than Amsoil, I'd definitely go with the Mobil1 15W-50. You could try a better oil, such as Redline 5W-40 or 10W-40 which is much better suited for the punishment at the track.
 
Messages
211
Location
Mississauga, ON
quote:
Originally posted by CelicaGT6: there is a subaru guy in my local car club who empthatic about the fact that redline evaporates and thus is not a good oil to use. is there any truth to that?
Redline is one of the best track oils you can buy, 2nd only to Motul 300V series and Amsoil S2K 20W-50. Go for it! [ September 27, 2003, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Ferrari ]
 
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5,785
Location
Dixie
Since you live in California, it should be easy to find the Redline 10w-30 or 10w-40 on the shelf. I'd try one of those first .... As Al mentioned, mixing the 15w-50 and 10w-30 is also a viable option. I'd use 2 qts of the 15w-50 and 3 of the 10w-30 to start. That should give you a 13-15 Cst oil at 210F .... TS
 
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5,785
Location
Dixie
Ferrari, Oil will thin out by approx one SAE grade for every 20F/10C increase in oil temps. So a 50wt @ 250F will run about the same oil pressure as a 40wt @ 230F, or a 30wt @ 210F. I'm sure that running Mobil 1, 15w-50 in a prelude engine gives you extremely high oil pressure, so even with the very high oil temps the pressure on the gauge is going to be okay. I'd imagine for street use, the gauge would be pegged all the time with a 15w-50 in that engine. When I used to run the Series 2000, 20w-50 in my Audi 100, it would peg the gauge @ 5 bar at anything over 2500 rpms! For your situation, I would think the Amsoil 10w-40, Redline 10w-40, or Delvac 1, 5w-40 would give you acceptable oil pressure for occasional track use. You want to make sure the oil pressure is at least 10 psi/1000 rpms of engine speed to avoid excessive bearing wear. Even with the Amsoil 10w-30, you were just above that - approx 1.25 psi/1000 rpms - but I like to see a bit more margin of safety. If you see 60 psi @ 4000 rpms, that will be just fine .... TS
 
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9,448
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USA
Redline does not evaperate any more then any other oil. Actualy her in the USA Redline is the least volitile oil that you can buy. This means it will "evaporate" less as it reachs boil off temps. I have grossly simplified this so please no one jump me. Sounds to me like your friend is a Redline hater. Unless he can back this statement up with astm test data I would say he is full of it. Check out Redlines site and they will show their results. I can not recomend Redline enough for hard use. Their is not another oil OTC that will take the heat and abuse Redline will! Use the street stuff not the raceing stuff or you will need to drain after the race.
 

CelicaGT6

Thread starter
Messages
41
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
so since i just changed my oil. I was thinking id drain it before the track into a reusable container, put in RL 10W-40(guy sells it locally), and then when im down with the weekend, switch back to M1 5W-30 till the next track event and store the RL till then. is this advisable?
 
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34,394
Location
NJ
You want to stick with one brand, and especially RL. RL actually takes time to plate up and become the most effective it can be the more you use it. They are all compatible, but if your making the switch to RL, I'd stay with it.
 
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5,785
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Dixie
CelicaGT6, I'd just run the Redline 10w-30 or 10w-40 all the time - it works very well in the 3.0L Toyo V-6. Even with some occasional racing you can run 6000-8000 miles with no problem. The evaporation rate of Redline is very low - grade for grade, it's lower than Mobil 1 for example. Tooslick
 

CelicaGT6

Thread starter
Messages
41
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Is there any truth to this quote:
quote:
Redline oil is a Polyester based oil (dunno about blends). Apparently the Polyester is just as good as Di-esters, except for one thing: Polyesters are not necessarily compatible with the non-metallic parts of the engine. It has been known to cause seals to swell, etc. It is for this reason that supposedly it is not useable in aircraft, and also I don't think that it is rated (SF, SG, etc) since all rated oils must pass a gasket compatibility test...
from: http://www.corvair.org/chapters/chapter017/resources/tips/vv/all_about_oil.html
 

CelicaGT6

Thread starter
Messages
41
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Assuming that RL doesnt swell the seals to the point that it screws something up in my engine, it looks like i will be picking up some RL for the track. However, once I get home afterwards will 10W-40 be too thick for santa barbara winter times? For example, the forecase for this week says the weather will get as low as the mid 50's. Is this too cold for 10W-40? If I use the oil for the track and dont change it aftewards, how long should I be able to go before it gets too dirty? My speedo hasnt worked since my engine swap so I basically go by months and/or how dirty the oil looks.
 
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