Mobil1 oil filter possibly hurting my engine overtime?

[Sid]

Hi there. First post on the boards. Pretty cool place and very informative I have to say. I guess I'll just get to my questions.

I have a 2000 Ford Focus 2.0L DOHC Zetec engine. I currently am running Mobil1 5w30 Tri-Synthetic with a M1-209 Mobil1 oil filter. I will be switching to 5W-20 Royal Purple for this winter but that's besides the point. The problem is the M1-209 filter from Mobil has the exact dimensions as a Motorcraft oil filter made specifically for my motor, BUT it only has 1 Anti Drainback Valve. Apparently FORD specifies that all oil filter designed for this car must have 2 ADV's According to someone I talked to at Champion Industries, if the filter does not have 2 ADV's overtime you MAY cause damage to upper parts of your engine such as camshafts and such. This info was given to him from FORD. Indications maybe if the engine takes longer to crank then usual.

I guess I'd like to know if I am possibly doing any harm to my engine if I keep using the Mobil1 filter or any other filter with just 1 ADV for that matter. I figure thinner oil may fight this but I don't want to take chances.

The only oil filters specifically made for my car that I am aware of thus far are SuperTech, STP, Purolator Premium Plus and Motorcraft.
I would personally pick Purolator but according to the tech at Champion Industries, the STP and Supertech filters are premium filters that are better than OEM filters.

Thanks for reading and thanks for any responses.

[ October 14, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Sid ]

 

[Mike242GT]

Sid:

From what I found on Motorcraft's web site, Ford specs the Motorcraft FL-2005 for your car. This crosses to a Wix 51315. I've seen Motorcrafts on sale at Wal Mart fairly cheap, but not sure about the FL-2005 (I used the ubiquitous FL-1A). Wix filters are available around here at Bumper to Bumper parts stores, or you can get a Napa Gold filter which is the same thing. Probably for a few bucks less than the Mobil-1 filter, too.

 

[HOndaGuy]

switch back to the motorcraft filter. its cheaper, about 2.88 at wally world compared to 10 or more for a mobil 1 filter. Its a great filter, and i use it on my uncles zytec focus sedan with m1 0w20 every 2 months.

 

[Sid]

Okay I've been doing some research on this. I called up AMSOIL to see if they did make an oil filter specifically for the Focus. So I called AMSOIL and spoke to a very nice tech named Aaron. He told me that he does remember something specific about the Zetec engines and he said that if FORD recommends it he would tell me to go with a filter that has two ADV's BUT also said that he couldn't really see the 2nd ADV being a crucial component and that he didn't see how it could possibly do damage. But he said that Hastings (A company that works with AMSOIL) makes a filter to specification with two ADV's but he said he would comare the quality to a Motorcraft filter. Interesting thing he also said was that Motorcraft filters are quite nice and that they filter down to a low rate....8-10 microns to be exact. That's low. Only thing that seperates a Hastings from AMSOIL filter is that AMSOIL is designed to hold a higher capacity.

So I do believe that FORD did indeed specify that the filters do need 2 ADV's. My questions is would just 1 ADV harm anything in the engine.

BTW if anyone for some reason is interested on how this all got started you can go here.

http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1247&perpage=15&pagenumber=3

[ October 14, 2003, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Sid ]

 

[TC]

Well, I'll be a Pennsylvania coal miner's monkey-slapped son-of-a-gun illegitimate red-haired stepchild over a month of Kentucky Sundays!

If TWO beers are better than ONE beer (most definitely!!!), then by definition, two ADBVs must be better than one. Makes perfect sense!

On second thought, instead of two ADBVs, how about installing just one ADBV that actually WORKS. Come to think of it, has Fram EVER made an ADBV that worked? Perhaps Frams should have five ADBVs. Yeah, five....that should 'bout do it.

Sorry...this thread is just too much fun. I don't know about Zetec filter requirements, but one rather unscientific suggestion I'd make -- and one I think is nonetheless totally legitimate -- is that if a particular filter manufacturer's catalog lists an oil filter for your car, you have nothing to worry about. If they don't (even if they have a filter which will correctly fit onto your block), I'd move on to another brand. The filter manufacturers take all these quirks into account, so I think you'll do fine by accepting their catalogs as "bibles" on this matter.

Now, if only I had THREE hands....that'd mean THREE beers at a time! Nirvana...

[ October 14, 2003, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: TC ]

 

[Sid]

quote:

---

If they don't (even if they have a filter which will correctly fit onto your block), I'd move on to another brand. The filter manufacturers take all these quirks into account, so I think you'll do fine by accepting the catalogs as "bibles" on this matter.

---

Soooo you're telling me to just go with whatever is specified for the Zetec?

 

[TC]

Yes. If filter "Brand A" lists a filter for your car, you should feel safe in using it. If "Brand B" does NOT list a filter, even though they have a part # which is seemingly identical to Brand A's filter, don't use it.

Two other ideas. Since this engine might be ADBV-sensitive (sorta like how Madonna is "You can't act" sensitive), look for silicone ADBVs (typically orange in color), as opposed to less durable/flexible nitrile (typically black in color). The ADBV can be seen just inside the baseplate, unlike Madonna's movies, which mercifully CAN'T be seen inside theaters. Lastly, check out Ken2's ingeniously simple, yet possibly effective, test for ADBVs:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000977#000018

 

[unDummy]

What 2nd ADBV? Is it a bypass valve? Or ADFV

Isn't it just an antispill valve when servicing this vehicle? for the enviro-weenies? new techs that don't want to get hands dirty?
Is this the valve that makes filling the filter impossible?

Do I understand correctly that the DOHC has a version of variable cam flux capacitor? Maybe oil pressure is very quickly needed to put the cam where it belongs when the car is started?
Then, why would the bypass be so high compared to the other filter?

Until this is understood or explained by Ford, I would stick with VERY specific filters for this engine. Wix/Purolator/Fram/Motorcraft....have different xreferences for the fl400 and fl2005.

Or, be a rebel and use anything. If the engine breaks, swap the filter prior to dropping it off at the dealer for the rebuild

If no warranty left, its your gamble.

 

[labman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by HOndaGuy:
switch back to the motorcraft filter. its cheaper, about 2.88 at wally world compared to 10 or more for a mobil 1 filter. Its a great filter, and i use it on my uncles zytec focus sedan with m1 0w20 every 2 months.

---

I don't know about Motorcraft, but what I have chopped open, the ST, STP, and Purolator didn't look as good as the AC Delco they crossed from. I tend to trust the OEM. I back the HOndaGuy.

 

[tenderloin]

The 2.0 Zetec DOHC DOES require a different filter than the other 2.0 engine available in the Focus, the 2.0 SPI. The Zetec does have the extra "valve" and is Motorcraft FL -2005. 2.0 SPI call for the Motorcraft FL-400S.

Mobil does not have the proper filter. Neither does K&N. Motorcraft, Wix, napa Gold, ST, Fram and I belive STP (made by Champion, but not in Bosch label) make them for the ZETEC.

I (my sons 2002 ZTS) have been using the Napa Gold and the Motorcraft with good results.

 

[Sid]

I understand what you guys are saying. TC you're a funny guy hehe. Your examples take me a while to get but once I reread them it's all clear. I think I'll just go with Motorcraft for my next oil change and stick with synthetic oil.

But I'd still like to know why 2 ADV's are needed and what the benefits are.

[ October 14, 2003, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: Sid ]

 

[HOndaGuy]

the filter you need is the motorcraft fl-2005, you can buy almost 5 filters for the price of an m1 filter.

 

[UncleS2]

Sid,

I don't profess to have any special knowledge about the Ford Focus or recommended oil filters for it. I do wonder if the Champion cust svc rep even knew that Champion also makes the Mobil 1 oil filters. What specific Motorcraft filter does Ford recommend for your car? If it was mine, I'd cross reference directly from that pn.

*TWO* antidrainback valves?

Maybe so, but it makes me wonder if the rep lumped together the ADBV & the bypass valve. Sadly, most cust svc reps know very little about things automotive, or other merchandise, for that matter. Most just read from a script on the computer screen. Even then, when you talk to two different reps about the same item, & ask identical questions, you'll often get two diffeent answers. This is also often true for a second call to the same rep!

 

[Tubescreamer]

I have a ZX2 with the same Zetec DOHC as the Focus. This engine has been used since 98' in the Contour,Mystique,Cougar,Focus,Escape and all ZX2's and yet no one makes a premium filter like, Mobile 1 or PureOne. I've used Fram, Motorcraft and now a Super Tech. The Fram DOES NOT have the 2nd
anti-drain back valve. The cheaper priced Super Tech has the 2nd valve just like the Motorcraft. In a couple of weeks I'll be cutting open the Super Tech to see how the construction compares the Motorcraft.
One more thing. If you find a Purolator premium plus, it's the same filter as the Motocraft.

 

[dickwells]

I was under the impression from the old Russ Knize study, which may be outdated, that the motorcraft looked like it was the heavier Premium casing with a Pure1 media in it. What reason do you have to think that the filter media has been downgraded to the Premium type?

 

[tenderloin]

"The Fram DOES NOT have the 2nd anti-drain back valve"

Fram has and still does make a ZETEC specific oil filter

For 2.0 DOHC Zetec (These DO have extra
"valve")
Oil Filters Extra Guard PH8316
Oil Filters Tough Guard TG8316

For 2.0 SPI
Oil Filters Extra Guard PH3600
Oil Filters Tough Guard TG3600
Oil Filters Double Guard DG3600
Oil Filters X2 XG3600

 

[Sid]

quote:

---

Until you can get authenticated answers on the Mobil 1 filter, I would switch back to the OEM Motorcraft filter if only for warrenty reasons. I assume you are still on a factory warrenty. Sometimes a low volume ( compared to the factory supplier) oil filter manufacterer will show a filter w/o ADV list for a ADV application in the interest of having to make fewer diff. models. Sort of one size fits many applications, if you get my drift. Remember the old Midas muffler ad on TV- 'This here muffler fits over 189 different cars....' I do have a question. Are you saying your car needs an oil filter with two separate and distinct ADV's? Or one ADV with two holes in it.?

---

Hey Jim. I don't have a factory warranty. I bought the car off the street. I will stick with Motorcraft for now until I find more about this situation especially since I've been hearing that Motorcraft filters are very nice pieces.

I was told that the Zetec engine needs an oil filter with 2 ADV's in it. I'm still not too savvy on the situation since I don't know much about oil filters but this is what I've been told by 3 different people. I still don't know why. All I was told was it could harm the lubrication of your upper engine. But most people I talk to say they don't see how one ADV would harm the upper engine from no lubrication. Hmmmmmm.

[ October 15, 2003, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Sid ]

 

[TC]

Sid:

Several folks in this thread have steered you towards the Motorcraft filter. I can only think of one possible explanation for this: They're all racists who can only accept a filter that's painted "pure white."

Actually, this is good advice, especially if your Motorcraft part # has the PureOne media as some are wondering (you should verify this for the heck of it). If so, you've got everything you could want: 1) The proper ADBV features called for by Ford; 2) A premium synthetic blended media (PureOne) which will push filtration down into the 10 micron range; 3) Confirmed warranty compliance; 4) Possible, preferred "open end" bypass (common with Motorcraft filters); and 5) That lily white enameled complexion. (God, I hope I don't get too much hate mail for my deviant humor...) I agree with Tenderloin that the Napa Golds are an xlnt filter and sound like a good choice as well for your car. But the Motorcraft will certainly be the safe choice, and a downright excellent choice if it has the upgraded media, equalling the Mobil 1 in features/performance.

[ October 15, 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: TC ]

 

[Tubescreamer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by dickwells:
I was under the impression from the old Russ Knize study, which may be outdated, that the motorcraft looked like it was the heavier Premium casing with a Pure1 media in it. What reason do you have to think that the filter media has been downgraded to the Premium type?

---

I've read here on the forum and other places on the web that Motorcraft and Purolator plus is the same thing. I hope I’m wrong and the cartridge is a PureOne. The only thing that makes me wonder is Purolator doesn’t have a part number for a PureOne fitting the Zetec DOHC engine. I would think that they would offer a PurOne if they already made the media for Motorcraft. I’m just going by what I’ve read on the web. J

 

[Tubescreamer]

quote:

---

Originally posted by tenderloin:
"The Fram DOES NOT have the 2nd anti-drain back valve"

Fram has and still does make a ZETEC specific oil filter

For 2.0 DOHC Zetec (These DO have extra
"valve")
Oil Filters Extra Guard PH8316
Oil Filters Tough Guard TG8316

For 2.0 SPI
Oil Filters Extra Guard PH3600
Oil Filters Tough Guard TG3600
Oil Filters Double Guard DG3600
Oil Filters X2 XG3600

---

I have purchased a Fram Extra Guard PH8316. I know this filter is specified for the ZETEC DOHC. It does not have the 2nd ADV. If you get some time, pull a PH8316 off the shelf and take a look. The Super Tech ST8316 does have the 2nd ADV.
I was trying to point out that even though FRAM makes it specifically for the ZETEC, they don’t make it to specs.