Mobil1 15w-50, 5191miles, 02 Civic Si, built motor

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Engine is built with forged steel rods, aluminum pistons, acl race bearings, 8620 billet camshafts, etc etc. She's my little street beast. The motor has only 10,7xx miles on her at the time the oil was sampled. This was the 2nd oil change after the break-in oil changes. Copper is a bit high, but I believe there is some copper plating that happens during the manufacture of these camshafts, so it's probably a wear-in metal as noted in the report.
 
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How hard is the car driven? If its really beaten on, and this close after break-in, it's not bad. Nice slug of Zinc in that oil! Sheared more than I thought this oil would, though.....
 

chunky

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Car is driven pretty hard on occasion, but is primarily a daily driver. I like to have a little more fun than your average commuter though. :p It's a 12.5:1 compression motor that gets shifted at 9000rpm when I'm having fun. The oil temps do get pretty high when I'm in traffic. I've seen oil temps of 225F after pulling off the interstate into city traffic. Basically, I know that the motor beats up the oil, which is why I run the 15w-50 in the first place. Since I know that everything is good with the motor, she'll probably start to see track time soon enough. Oh, I should have added that I use the Bosch 3312 filter for the Honda S2000 on the motor right now.
 
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It did shear the oil but the TBN is really good. That kind of driving I am sure really beats up the oil.
 
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02 was the change over to the K-series motors and switched to the hatchback. My guess is a K20A2/Z1 swap???? The stock 02 SI mill was a plain jane DOHC K20, 160hp. Sweet motor...
 
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Well, there must be a couple hundred Honda UOAs posted here, using 20 wt oils, that are every bit as good as this one. So, is there any evidence in this UOA that justifies the use of a 50 wt oil?
 
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 Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Well, there must be a couple hundred Honda UOAs posted here, using 20 wt oils, that are every bit as good as this one. So, is there any evidence in this UOA that justifies the use of a 50 wt oil?
"Engine is built with forged steel rods, aluminum pistons, acl race bearings, 8620 billet camshafts, etc etc. She's my little street beast." The owner is after performance and not fuel economy.
 

chunky

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 Originally Posted By: ekpolk
Well, there must be a couple hundred Honda UOAs posted here, using 20 wt oils, that are every bit as good as this one. So, is there any evidence in this UOA that justifies the use of a 50 wt oil?
I'm not joking when I say it's a built motor. This is not a civic with a stock motor. It's a fully built 2.0L motor making 230+hp to the wheels, naturally aspirated. If I ran a 20wt oil in this motor and drove it the way I drive, it wouldn't have lasted past the first oil change. You won't find many UOAs of a fully built Honda motor running 20wt oil. Typically the owners know better. Honda recommends a 30wt oil in their 100% bone stock K20a2 motors, which was the starting point for my motor. I would never run anything less than a 40wt in this motor because it is FULLY BUILT. I run the 15w-50 b/c it's accessible and because it's recommended for high performance engines. I buy it from Wal-mart for cheap. Plus, the added viscosity gives me an extra margin of safety at the high revs that this motor sees with regularity.
 

chunky

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 Originally Posted By: zulu
02 was the change over to the K-series motors and switched to the hatchback. My guess is a K20A2/Z1 swap???? The stock 02 SI mill was a plain jane DOHC K20, 160hp. Sweet motor...
Yeah, it started as a bucket of parts. K20a3 block, k20a2 crank, head, oil pump. Forged rods & pistons, 8620 billet steel camshafts, ported head, bored +1mm, 6spd gearbox + 5.062 final drive. I'm curious to see how the trans fluid is holding up. I'll probably check it at 15 or 20k. I run the Mobil1 75w-90 gear lube. It starts out with a pretty high viscosity, but the short gear & high revs really beat up the trans. fluid too. :p
 
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It didn't shear that much,starts out on the low end of a 50w and ended up on the high side of a 40w, The oil did d amn good IMO, 5,100 miles of being beat on turning them RPM's with a TBN of 5 yet!. This is a great oil from Mobil 1!!! Op keep using this oil it's working for ya.
 
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I wouldn't use M1 in the gearbox. Maybe try Redline 75w90NS or 75w140NS, or Motul gear 300. Looks excellent. Would you consider the M1 20w50(V-twin) or the 10w40HM oil? If oil temp gets a little high, increase the sump capacity. A single or dual remote oil filter using a couple of large PH8a or PH977's is a great way to increase oil capacity. 10k OCI??
 
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 Originally Posted By: chunky
[quote=ekpolk] I'm not joking when I say it's a built motor. This is not a civic with a stock motor. It's a fully built 2.0L motor making 230+hp to the wheels, naturally aspirated. If I ran a 20wt oil in this motor and drove it the way I drive, it wouldn't have lasted past the first oil change. You won't find many UOAs of a fully built Honda motor running 20wt oil. Typically the owners know better.
So 20wt oils can handle 500+hp Maybachs, ferraris and whatever else AEHaas drives but it can't handle your piddly civic? I find that hard to believe.
 
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 Originally Posted By: badtlc
So 20wt oils can handle 500+hp Maybachs, ferraris and whatever else AEHaas drives but it can't handle your piddly civic? I find that hard to believe.
How hard is to understand that one thing to to leisurely drive a couple of miles to the surgicenter or golf course and another to squeeze all the HP from a motor. It's all about the oil temp.
 
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 Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
 Originally Posted By: badtlc
So 20wt oils can handle 500+hp Maybachs, ferraris and whatever else AEHaas drives but it can't handle your piddly civic? I find that hard to believe.
How hard is to understand that one thing to to leisurely drive a couple of miles to the surgicenter or golf course and another to squeeze all the HP from a motor. It's all about the oil temp.
Lot of assumptions in there. Got the data comparing your oil temps to Dr. H's? Examples of failed performance engines that were killed by a 20 wt oil? Any hard data on what the critical vis limit might be for this "built" engine (other than simple platitudes about 20 vs 30 wt oil)??? And so on. . .
 

chunky

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 Originally Posted By: badtlc
 Originally Posted By: chunky
[quote=ekpolk] I'm not joking when I say it's a built motor. This is not a civic with a stock motor. It's a fully built 2.0L motor making 230+hp to the wheels, naturally aspirated. If I ran a 20wt oil in this motor and drove it the way I drive, it wouldn't have lasted past the first oil change. You won't find many UOAs of a fully built Honda motor running 20wt oil. Typically the owners know better.
So 20wt oils can handle 500+hp Maybachs, ferraris and whatever else AEHaas drives but it can't handle your piddly civic? I find that hard to believe.
AEHaas himself acknowledges that different operating environments require different grades of oil. For a car that's just rolling around the streets at the speed limit, you pick as low a viscosity oil as possible to get you the minimum pressure required by the engine manufacturer. For a fully built motor that sees track time, you pick an oil that can handle the added stress. Ask AEHaas if he'd run his 20wt oil on the track.
 
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 Originally Posted By: badtlc
So 20wt oils can handle 500+hp Maybachs, ferraris and whatever else AEHaas drives but it can't handle your piddly civic? I find that hard to believe.
It's not what Honda recommends for a high-revving S2000. Nor do they recommend it in foreign markets.
 
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Chunky - I'm fairly familiar with K20s, and I'd recommend running something like AMSOIL SSO 0w30, Redline 5w40, etc. You are running a built engine, sure, but it's naturally aspirated and it was built for longevity as well. I didn't see you mention tracking the car, and these engines don't build-up alot of heat, nor produce massive shearing action. Our sumps aren't too small either. M1 15w50 is a great oil for really tough engines or track days, but it's not necessarily the best suited for daily use (I do realize that smart people like FrankN4 has run M1 15w50 in about 10 applications for over 200k miles on many of them, don't get me wrong). Your engine would most likely benefit from an oil for better cold flow characteristics and a more moderate operating temp viscosity. Do remember that honda specs 5w30 for k20s with 8200 rpm redlines and 11:1 CRs....dino 5w30. A high quality 0w30, 5w30, or 5w40 would meet all your needs and then some. Just my .02....no matter what, whether it's M1 15w50 or M1 0w20, this engine is going to last a long time if it was put together properly.
 
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