Mobil in Corvette

[buster]

lol..my friend just put a new Corsa exhaust on his Vette. The guys there use Amsoil. I told him that I would use Mobil 1 0w-40 but he told me how Chevy specifically states not too use a 40wt oil. I called up the Mobil tech line (what joke they are) and spoke to someone decent this time. He said


"..in Europe they care more about protection, but in the US we have all of these **** tree huggers around so it's about emissions and mpg."

Heard it from the horses mouth. His buddies by the way, run M1 15w-50 when racing Z06's.

When looking at the product data sheets you will also find it says you can use a 50wt or 40wt where ever a 20wt,30wt or 40wt is called for. So it doesn't matter. Just thought I'd share this wonderfull information.

 

[Mystic]

buster, I would like to have this whole deal about oil viscosity cleared up. I personally believe that Ford and Honda went to 5W-20 oil just to meet CAFE requirments, which helps them as corporations and not necessarily the customer buying a new car or truck. On the other hand, I would like to use the lightest viscosity possible for fuel economy.

I am willing to bet that in car racing, they switch to the 15W-50 and 20W-50 oils for the actual race. In qualifying runs, they may use something lighter.

When they went from recommending 10W-40 to 10W-30, statements were made to the effect that 10W-40 had too much viscosity improver and caused problems. But now that most recommend 5W-30, that viscosity has more viscosity improver than 10W-30.

I have heard that some of the very engineers that have stated that people should use 5W-30 year round, were using 10W-30 in their own vehicles in the summertime.

A little simple honesty when it comes to oil viscosity would go a long way. If a corporation is willing to lie about oil viscosity, what else are they willing to lie about?

 

[buster]

I here you. The problem is, does anyone really know the answer to this? We know it's CAFE related, but depending on the engine and clearances, I don't think there is one simple answer. In other words, for Vettes, like Patman has stated, a heavier 30wt oil might be ideal. However, for a WRX, M1 seems to do well in it. Viscosity and wear....

 

[pscholte]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mystic:

When they went from recommending 10W-40 to 10W-30, statements were made to the effect that 10W-40 had too much viscosity improver and caused problems. But now that most recommend 5W-30, that viscosity has more viscosity improver than 10W-30.

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Mystic,

It is incredible that you should bring up the 10W40 issue, because I was just thinking similar thoughts to what you expressed above. If 10W40 was bad then what about the 0W40s and the 10W60s now. Is it because the 10W40s weren't hydrocracked or full synthetic and so they couldn't handle the spread? Seems to me I recall one OEM stating that they would void your warranty if you used it.

 

[buster]

I think the VI's are just of better quality now.

 

[Mystic]

pscholte, they actually did have problems with 10W-40 oils several years ago. People were claiming that too much viscosity improver was bad. Of course, the oils back in those days were not as good and the additives were not as good. And hydrocracked oils were probably just the dreams of engineers back in those days.

Another thing that makes everything complicated today is synthetic oil. A quality 5W-30 or even 0W-30 synthetic oil may be just as good in the summertime as a conventional 15W-40. I am using the German Castrol (0W-30) right now in the summertime. You can bet that I would not use a conventional 0W-30 in the summertime (if there was such a thing as a conventional 0W-30).

I thing buster is probably right that different engines require different viscosities. It would scare the heck out of me if I was racing a Corvette with 5W-30 oil. I thing I would prefer a 15W-50 in a racing Corvette.

And I can't picture a farmer or a rancher driving around in a farm or ranch pick-up truck with 0W-30 or 5W-30 oil in it in the summertime. I think the typical farmer or rancher is using at least a 10W-30 or a 15W-40.

But 5W-20 and 5W-30 oil, or even 0W-30 oil, may be great for year round use in a small car.

How do we find out? Can we trust the car manufacturers?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by pscholte:
If 10W40 was bad then what about the 0W40s and the 10W60s now. Is it because the 10W40s weren't hydrocracked or full synthetic and so they couldn't handle the spread? Seems to me I recall one OEM stating that they would void your warranty if you used it.

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That's the problem. The old 10w40s (and Shell even had a 10w50!!) were produced from plain ol' solvent dewaxed Group I base oil. A LOT of VI improver was needed because the base oil itself had a very low VI. Some 10w40s were perfectly okay because the quality of the VI improver was sufficient. That's why Shell could get away with a 10w50, because of their ShellVis VI improver, which was extremely shear stable. But for the most part, 10w40s were prone to shearing and GM forbade their use because of premature cam lobe wear.

With modern Group II+, Group III, and synthetic base oils, the issue of a 30 pt spread being "too much" is a non-issue. The base oils themselves have sufficiently high VIs that "too much" VI improver isn't needed. And in the case of PAO and esters, a 30 pt spread can be achieved from the VI of the base oil blend alone.

As for which vis is best, I think the best advice I've seen along those lines is on the Redline web site: Use the lowest vis that is practical for your temperature and driving conditions. (My paraphrase from memory.)

 

[buster]

quote:

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As for which vis is best, I think the best advice I've seen along those lines is on the Redline web site: Use the lowest vis that is practical for your temperature and driving conditions.

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So in that case, Mobil 1 is a good fit for the Vette.

G-MannII, how does Mobil formulate the 0w-40? Is it mostly PAO?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
G-MannII, how does Mobil formulate the 0w-40? Is it mostly PAO?

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Yes, it's mostly PAO with some esters and an alkylated aromatic. From the standpoint of the various base oils used in the blend, it's the same as the TriSyn formula. However, the higher pour points for SuperSyn (vs TriSyn) are because of the higher viscosity SuperSyn PAOs that are used.

 

[MNgopher]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mystic:


And I can't picture a farmer or a rancher driving around in a farm or ranch pick-up truck with 0W-30 or 5W-30 oil in it in the summertime. I think the typical farmer or rancher is using at least a 10W-30 or a 15W-40.

But 5W-20 and 5W-30 oil, or even 0W-30 oil, may be great for year round use in a small car.

How do we find out? Can we trust the car manufacturers?

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And yet we get great reports on 5w20 used in a Superduty V10 hauling trailers through the Colorado rockies. Lightning F150's supercharged V8's putting out 400 hp with excellent results on 5w20.

It ain't as simple as that anymore!

Just when you think you've figured out what works, the rules change!

 

[harrydog]

Here's a quote from Redline's website:

"The superiority of synthetics lies in the fact that a 10W40 synthetic can provide the high-shear protection superior to a petroleum 20W50 in the bearings and cams, while providing a much lower viscosity on the cylinder walls and in the ring pack. This lower viscosity produces more power and also better efficiency and fuel economy. However, wide range synthetics such as 5W50s use the same thickener systems as petroleum 20W50s and suffer from the same viscosity losses in the bearings and cams."


I'm still very wary of the really wide range synthetics and the 0w oils for severe duty use.
The Mitsubishi EVO comes with a factory fill of Mobil 1 10w30. I don't think there are many production engines that would be harder on the oil than this engine. Why didn't they go with a 0w30 or 0w40?

 

[harrydog]

0w30 has been available for a long time and is readily available everywhere. I'm sure if Mitsubishi thought a 0-weight oil was the best for this highly stressed engine, they'd use it.

 

[Mike_dup1]

I beg to differ. None of the quick lube places here sell it, I called them and asked. They all told me no one ever asked for it before. Its not on the shelves at Walmart here.

The big oil companies have not marketed in all areas of the US. I know a QS distributor and he does not carry it.

Its still considered a speciality oil by many.

[ July 24, 2003, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]

 

[harrydog]

I've seen Mobil 1 0w30 on the shelves of Walmart, K-Mart, and all of the local auto parts stores for a long, long time.

 

[JohnBrowning]

None of the retail stores I have been in includeing Walmart and Kmart have 0W30. The only place I have found them is at AutoZone!

 

[turbochem]

quote:

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I've seen Mobil 1 0w30 on the shelves of Walmart, K-Mart, and all of the local auto parts stores for a long, long time.

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Where in the "Midwest" do you live??

Here in Indy, zip.....zilch......

 

[Kernel Potter]

In the Chicago area the Mobil1 0w-30 is disappearing from the Walmarts, K-Marts, Targets etc. But it still is in auto stores like Autozone and Murray's - at least in the area I live.

It sucks for me cause I was going to switch to that in my new dailey driver and I could have saved some $$ if it was at Walmart.

 

[Mike_dup1]

Well these vehicles were in the pipeline long before the 0W-30 and 0W-40 were available. Also they are not easy to locate in some areas.

 

[harrydog]

I'm in the Cincinnati area. I haven't looked lately, but I'll have to check now that you're all saying you can't find it.
I also recall seeing it in eastern Pennsylvania when I go there from time to time.
At any rate though, the 0w30 formulation has been around for awhile and if it were better than 10w30 for a particular application, why wouldn't it be the factory fill?

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by harrydog:
I'm in the Cincinnati area. I haven't looked lately, but I'll have to check now that you're all saying you can't find it.
I also recall seeing it in eastern Pennsylvania when I go there from time to time.
At any rate though, the 0w30 formulation has been around for awhile and if it were better than 10w30 for a particular application, why wouldn't it be the factory fill?

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Even if the 0w30 M1 is better than their 5w30/10w30 (which I don't believe it is anyways) they'd never use it as factory fill in the Corvette. Nobody would use it anyways, not only because most people are scared as soon as they hear the 0w (they immediately think the oil is like water) but also because 0w30 M1 is not as readily available as their 5w30 is.