Mobil Delvac 1 in Honda VFR 750

Jay

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Idaho Falls, ID
I'm ashamed to say I've ridden only 1,000 miles in the last 13 months. My voltage regulator died and I'm designing a new one. It's a project that has taken more time and money than I care to admit. Meanwhile, I "exercise" my bike once a week with no charging circuit, so I don't venture more than 20 minutes away from home. So these miles represent 30-mile highway rides once or twice a week over the last 13 months. All I wanted to learn from this analysis is whether it's OK to keep the oil. I hate to throw it away with so few miles. The wear numbers aren't very meaningful. Oil Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 Bike 1994 Honda VFR 750F Miles on Bike 40,760 Miles on Oil 1,000 Lab Schaeffers Cu 3 Fe 2 Cr 0 Al 1 Pb 0 Mo 1 P 1069 Zn 810 Mg 458 Ca 1439 antifreeze .0% fuel dilution N H20 .0% Si 2 viscosity @ 100*C 11.11 cSt sulfer 56% oxidation 9% nitration 2% So it looks like I can keep the oil. I'm surprised that it has thinned this much in only 1,000 miles. I'm at a loss to explain the sulfer. Lab error?
 
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So did the tranny chew this oil down to a 30wt. in 1000 miles? How does the bike shift with this stuff, Jay? Thanks for posting this! [Big Grin]
 
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SC
Sheared back to the mid-30wt range in 1000 miles. Those that have talked about D1 being a rock-solid shear stable oil may want to take note. [Big Grin]
 

Patman

Staff member
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Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II: Sheared back to the mid-30wt range in 1000 miles. Those that have talked about D1 being a rock-solid shear stable oil may want to take note. [Big Grin]
Most people won't put Delvac 1 to the abuse of a bike though. This bike probably saw 10,000rpm (or more) a lot, while most gas users of this oil would rarely hit 6000rpm, and a diesel would never most likely even see 4000rpm.
 
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8,937
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SC
quote:
Originally posted by Patman:
quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II: Sheared back to the mid-30wt range in 1000 miles. Those that have talked about D1 being a rock-solid shear stable oil may want to take note. [Big Grin]
Most people won't put Delvac 1 to the abuse of a bike though. This bike probably saw 10,000rpm (or more) a lot, while most gas users of this oil would rarely hit 6000rpm, and a diesel would never most likely even see 4000rpm.

I realize that a hi-reving bike engine is going to be harder on an oil than a car engine. However, exotic synthetics are not what the manufacturer recommends for these engines, and they come from the factory with conventional multi-vis oil in them, so they can't be but so hard on an oil. Given this, one would not expect to see Delvac 1 shear out of grade in just 1000 miles—at least I wouldn't given what others have said on here about Delvac 1's shear stability.
 
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Thought the transmission gears had more to do with the shearing than the RPM's. Also, I believe, this bike has gear driven cams! This bike needs some serious oil! [Wink]
 
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Originally posted by G-Man II: "I realize that a hi-reving bike engine is going to be harder on an oil than a car engine. However, exotic synthetics are not what the manufacturer recommends for these engines, and they come from the factory with conventional multi-vis oil in them, so they can't be but so hard on an oil." What is harder on an oil then? Honda ships their bikes with the Honda oil. Junk!! And they recommend their overpriced, rebadged, GN-4 car oil. What do you recommend? [Confused]
 

Jay

Thread starter
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Idaho Falls, ID
Richard, motorcycle voltage regulators are very crude, inefficient, unreliable designs, including the aftermarket ones like Electrex. I'm working on a true switching design that will address these issues and I intend to take it to market. I haven't bought a replacement yet as added incentive to get the project done quickly so I can ride my bike. The viscosity indicates that this oil sheared about 4cSt in 1000 miles. That's either an indictment of the oil or the lab. I'm not sure which. It doesn't bother me to run 30-weight, but is this oil through shearing down? In any case I'll test it again when I get more miles on it. I have another 2 1/2 gallons of D1 on hand. It's only sold by the case in my area. Chris, my bike shifts better with 30-weight than 40-weight and friction modified oils don't bother the wet clutch. It's a V-4 with two banks of gear-driven cams but I'm sure it's the transmission that shears the oil since it's much more highly loaded. There's a report of Delvac 1300 in a bike on this board that didn't shear nearly so much in twice as many miles, but that oil is 15w-40.
 
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Southern NJ
quote:
Sheared back to the mid-30wt range in 1000 miles. Those that have talked about D1 being a rock-solid shear stable oil may want to take note.
What about the fact that the oil is over a year old and hardly was used? I don't think anyone should be surprised with this. Thats why Amsoil always specifies 25k or 1 year. Has nothing to do with it's shear stability IMO.
 
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Dixie
Delvac 1 would never thin out this much unless you had severe fuel dilution or moisture in it. I suspect an error from the lab - the viscosity should be 14.1 Cst - and would send in a sample to another lab to verify the data. I've see tons of oil analysis data on Delvac 1 and it never shears more than about 5%-10% and often not at all .... Ted
 

Jay

Thread starter
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Idaho Falls, ID
I've had some time to think about the viscosity results and I'm fairly convinced that TooSlick is right. The lab is wrong. I'll test this oil again when I get more miles on the bike and bring this thread to the top. In the meantime, I'm looking to rig up a cheap way to measure viscosity at home. It shouldn't be that tough.
 
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Detroit (Rock City)
quote:
Originally posted by Jay: I'm looking to rig up a cheap way to measure viscosity at home. It shouldn't be that tough.
Years ago my dad bought a Wagner airless paint sprayer. Years ago, like 1974... In any case, at the time you had to make sure that the paint was the right thickness to work in the gun. To make sure, Wagner supplied a little metal cup with a handle on it. The bottom of the cup was cone-shaped, and had a (presumably!) precisely sized hole in it. As I recall, you were to thin the paint until you got some number of drops through the hole per minute. My suggestion- make a device like I'm describing and start with a small hole and a control oil of known viscosity. Virgin D1 for example. Continue re-sizing the hole until you get a good number of drops/minute (30?) and then check your used stuff... It'll be an interesting test. $0.02, Robert
 
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Save your money, save your time, get what you paid for and call Schaeffers lab and get them to rerun the vis or double check the data. Oil analysis is supposed to answer questions not create them..... I do it all ( well most of the time) [Big Grin] the time BEFORE you as a customer see it.
 

Jay

Thread starter
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1,607
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
Sorry satterfi, I tried to measure viscosity with a homemade setup by heating it to 100*C in my oven. I have some virgin Delvac 1 and some M1 0w-30 to compare with, but I had poor repeatability on the tests. It was too hard to maintain the 100*C temp and it stunk up the house so bad I gave up. I continue to ride the bike on the same oil though. I'm working on the 4th prototype regulator/rectifier and getting closer to a marketable design. You could say I'm 80% there with 80% to go. Why? Did yours crap out?
 

Jay

Thread starter
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1,607
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
quote:
Originally posted by Jay: Oil Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 Bike 1994 Honda VFR 750F Miles on Bike 40,760 Miles on Oil 1,000 Lab Schaeffers Cu 3 Fe 2 Cr 0 Al 1 Pb 0 Mo 1 P 1069 Zn 810 Mg 458 Ca 1439 antifreeze .0% fuel dilution N H20 .0% Si 2 viscosity @ 100*C 11.11 cSt sulfer 56% oxidation 9% nitration 2% ... I'm surprised that it has thinned this much in only 1,000 miles... Lab error?
I revived this thread because I have test results again on this same oil at 3270 miles: Oil Mobil Delvac 1 5w-40 Bike 1994 Honda VFR 750F Miles on Bike 43,030 Miles on Oil 3,270 Lab Schaeffers Cu 10 Fe 6 Cr 0 Al 5 Pb 2 Mo 2 P 1026 Zn 1124 Mg 604 Ca 2029 antifreeze .0% fuel dilution N H20 .0% Si 5 viscosity @ 100*C 11.63 cSt sulfer 39% oxidation 10% nitration 3% We were wondering if the heavy shearing was due to lab error or harsh environment. It looks like the latter. I'm very pleased with the wear metals. They're not only low but fairly proportional with the miles driven, so the wear is steady and the lab results for the two UOAs are consistent (except for some inconsistencies with some of the additives). I changed from OEM paper air filter to a UNI oiled-foam filter at the time of the first sample, so it looks like the foam filter is working as well as the OEM element. This oil was in use 2 and 1/2 years (!) and I changed it at sample time even though it was good oil.
 
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282
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VA
I'd be interested to see the TBN on this oil, given all the sitting around time and probable moisture in the oil.
 
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