Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40, 4733 miles, 2018 Lincoln Navigator L, 3.5 Liter Ecoboost

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Oil: Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W40 Miles on Oil: 4733 Vehicle: 2018 Lincoln Navigator L Engine: 3.5 liter Ecoboost Twin Turbo 2nd Generation Months: About 5 weeks Driving conditions: NYC area livery vehicle, lots of start stop, lots of sitting in traffic Right after I changed oil started getting cold start rattle. Work was done previously for a cold start rattle and many components like chain and water pump replaced. This is 2nd time its happened. [Linked Image]

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Illinois
Originally Posted by oldhp
Is it spec'ed for 5W40? If not, you might want to switch to Mobil Delvac 10W30 to help the start up rattle.
I think the 3.5 is spec'd for 5-30.
 

Navi

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The rattle has nothing to do with the oil or the filter. Its the VCT units and its a known problem. Currently at the dealership getting fixed under warranty. Ford has been trying to get its head around the issue for the last year but it has nothing to do with lubrication.
 
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Originally Posted by Navi
The rattle has nothing to do with the oil or the filter. Its the VCT units and its a known problem. Currently at the dealership getting fixed under warranty. Ford has been trying to get its head around the issue for the last year but it has nothing to do with lubrication.
Report looks very good. What was the previous oil used where you got the TBN? With 6.1 you've got a lot of life left in that oil.
 
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Originally Posted by Navi
The rattle has nothing to do with the oil or the filter. Its the VCT units and its a known problem. Currently at the dealership getting fixed under warranty. Ford has been trying to get its head around the issue for the last year but it has nothing to do with lubrication.
The 2nd paragraph is likely correct but you continue to fiddle around with non recommend lubricants.
 

Navi

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Please dont troll the thread with a speech about not suggested lubricants. Even though in the owners manual it says to use such&such weight lubricant in the USA...in places like the Middle East, Alaska, Australia the suggested weights are different in the owners manual or known to the people there. For example 20W50 seems used a lot in places like Dubai and 5W40 used a lot in Europe. People in those geographies know what they need. 5W30 is usually suggested in the USA as a catch all general lubricant for Suburban commuters experiencing 4 season weather. Maryland comes to mind. My driving is all severe service putting 70000 hard miles a year on them. Thus Ive settled on 5W40 and have had zero issues. Blackstone gives it a glowing report every time. I dont do long drain intervals. The best way to keep an engine free of things like sludge is frequent oil changes. In fact before the present day maintenance meter manufacturers like Ford said 5000 miles per change for police cars and severe service vehicles. Oil is cheap but an engine is 5 to 10k dollars. Thus I feel its better to be safe then sorry so I change before 5000 miles. This is how I make a living and I dont take chances.
 
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Originally Posted by Navi
Please dont troll the thread with a speech about not suggested lubricants. Even though in the owners manual it says to use such&such weight lubricant in the USA...in places like the Middle East, Alaska, Australia the suggested weights are different in the owners manual or known to the people there. For example 20W50 seems used a lot in places like Dubai and 5W40 used a lot in Europe. People in those geographies know what they need. 5W30 is usually suggested in the USA as a catch all general lubricant for Suburban commuters experiencing 4 season weather. Maryland comes to mind. My driving is all severe service putting 70000 hard miles a year on them. Thus Ive settled on 5W40 and have had zero issues. Blackstone gives it a glowing report every time. I dont do long drain intervals. The best way to keep an engine free of things like sludge is frequent oil changes. In fact before the present day maintenance meter manufacturers like Ford said 5000 miles per change for police cars and severe service vehicles. Oil is cheap but an engine is 5 to 10k dollars. Thus I feel its better to be safe then sorry so I change before 5000 miles. This is how I make a living and I dont take chances.
Funny the only trolling I see is from you attempting to "fix" a problem with a lubricant. News flash this is the United States not the various countries you mentioned plus you don't operate your Navigator in stated countries. Ford tested this design with a 5W30 not whatever you feel like using. Dubai is a desert with a lot of WOT runs without warming an engine up its start and go. It's not New York with significant idling you are not researching a thing on your engine. You are playing Ena, mena, mona, mite and then doing a UOA. Far from any engine testing. Did you consider this while making a choice? https://www.infineuminsight.com/en-gb/articles/passenger-cars/timing-chain-wear/ How do you know your chosen formulation was subject to a timing chain wear test since it did not undergo ISLAC testing? Improper viscosity and using a lubricant longer than designed causes timing chain wear. Since the ISLAC testing was completed by the blender and manufacturer on a 30 grade how can you doing a UOA determine you are using the optimal lubricant? Will using a 40 grade do no harm? Likely no. Will using a 40 grade be any actual benefit? Likely no. Being said it is far more prudent to use what the OEM and it's suppliers have tested and recommend in a known problem child than playing rouge lubricant cowboy based on UOA.
 
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UOAs define condition of oil Navi. Not necessarily the condition of engine components..... as noted / exampled by Dave. SN Plus oils with Dexos 1 Gen 2 can be found in thick 5w30w, which seems to be your preference here. Example; The 5W30 Pennzoil Gold I bought for the Kia has a 100 cst of 11.78. I wanted a blend at 2K. Then move into a full synthetic at 5K. Those Korean vehicles I own never leave home without Dexos 1 Gen 2. Your twin turbos shouldn't either.
 
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You average almost 200 miles a day, 365 days a year in NYC. How many hours a day is the vehicle in service? I'm curious how livery vehicles make a living there. Is this Uber black or do you have some other way to get business? Just curious how profitable it can be to use a $90k Navigator that is likely only good for 3, maybe 4 years before requiring replacement.
 

Navi

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Thats wrong. I am NOT trying to fix a problem with thick oil. I never once said or claimed that is what I was doing. In utilizing a thicker oil Im trying to reduce wear and prevent problems...problems which I might not know about or which might come up with how Im using the vehicle. I typically go through 1 transmission a year and other iussues which the regular commuter do not seem to experience. I know of my buddies who have gone through engines on Suburbans...I referred them to my mechanic who charged them a great price...$5500...the dealer wanted $8000. I know exactly what is happening to the Navigator on the cold start issue which is the malfunctioning VCT units. It has nothing to do with lubrication. My maintenance policy is to perform preventative maintenance to perfection which involves 5000 mile changes and a little thicker oil. If you dont like that then tough luck. If you think thats too much tough luck I dont care. I regularly put 70000 miles a year on cars. In fact I put so many miles a year and am so busy I have other cars. Ive been through my share of problems with these cars...major issues involving engine and trans...one time even throwing a rod on the 9A in NYC. No matter what anyone thinks Im going to maintain my cars to perfection as problems are expensive and embarassing in front of my customers. If a problem occurs it wont be because of my maintenance. I paid money for these cars, sink time and money into them and am an adult who knows what Im doing to them. I dont need an alias named "Dave" who is not in my business and has no idea my experience in these matters telling me to use 5W30. If I break something which I doubt I will do its on me and no one else. Using 5W40 is my call and my decision and my business in putting it in my vehicle. As for the profitability of the business its a tough ruthless business and you need to know what you doing which means knowing the area expertly. If you miss turns, get the car stuck and dont know the tricks then the customer sees that then they go away...
 
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Honestly, as long as it doesn't burn & foul the cats, it's hard to believe ANY oil would be better than M1 TDT or Delvac 1 ESP 5W40. It'll be interesting to see how many miles you can get out of that 3.5 EB, I think we have an F-150 3.5 in Pittsburgh that's around 250K.
 

Navi

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To sum up my thinking goes like this.. 1. Its my car and it has special plates, special stickers and inspections. I cant go down to Hertz to rent one. Its my business. Im going to maintain it to perfection. If any problems crop up its on me. 2. Im going to play it safe. There might be either problems I dont know about or which only come up with severe service livery driving. 3. The engineers are not perfect. If they were perfect there wouldnt be all these warranty claims. 4. While they say 5W30 here they will have a different spec somewhere else like in Dubai...who thinks they put 5W30 in Ford vehicles in Dubai? The truck can take 5W40 easily and safely. 5. This Ecoboost engine is known for thinning or diluting oil. Best to start one grade higher. It will chop the viscosity down.
 
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Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
UOAs define condition of oil Navi. Not necessarily the condition of engine components..... as noted / exampled by Dave. SN Plus oils with Dexos 1 Gen 2 can be found in thick 5w30w, which seems to be your preference here. Example; The 5W30 Pennzoil Gold I bought for the Kia has a 100 cst of 11.78. I wanted a blend at 2K. Then move into a full synthetic at 5K. Those Korean vehicles I own never leave home without Dexos 1 Gen 2. Your twin turbos shouldn't either.
+100], I agree 110%
 
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Ford specs 5w30 in the US because of CAFE. If they could get away with it they would spec 5w20. The fact that they DONT in this application says A LOT. No one is listening though. Countless examples of manufacturers specifying a range of temperature dependent grade recommendations for the global market and a single light grade for the US market (for the SAME engine). I ALWAYS review global market specs for my engines, and tend to use a thicker grade after the manufacturer warranty period (because my climate more closely mirrors the surface of the sun than say, Canada.) This topic has come up quite a bit lately. This blind allegiance to grade recommendations in the US while completing ignoring CAFE and its effects or its requirements is mildly disconcerting. There is a reason why there is only one recommendation for oil in the vast majority of modern US manuals. It's spelled CAFE - and manufacturers are required to recommend the grade used for testing purposes. So to maximize their full fleet economy (the effect of even an additional 1/4 or 1/2 an mpg is staggering) they go straight to the thinnest oils possible. 0w16 is the next step. Manufacturers are running out of options on the technology themselves - they are forced to find compromised solutions to meet CAFE. 5w40 or 0w40 in OP's scenario is likely beyond fine.
 
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With intervalss this short, throw some 10 or 15/40 in there over the summer and see what happens! Bullwinkle was right, this is one of the better oils to run.
 

Navi

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I didnt realize it until I thought about it. The Ecoboost is a wickedly fun engine...lots of power...but it pushes a 270 horsepower 3.5 liter V6 to 450 horsepower like a 60s era muscle car. No changes were made to the amount of oil...still 6 quarts...and only 5W30 from 5W20. If you asked the guys at Summit Racing...hey I want to push my V6 engine to 450 horsepower through turbo charging...what oil should I use...do you think they will say Motorcraft 5W30 Semi Synthetic??? They would probably be sliding me a 5W40 HDEO along with a deeper oil pan to hold a few more quarts at the minimum.
 
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Originally Posted by Navi
I didnt realize it until I thought about it. The Ecoboost is a wickedly fun engine...lots of power...but it pushes a 270 horsepower 3.5 liter V6 to 450 horsepower like a 60s era muscle car. No changes were made to the amount of oil...still 6 quarts...and only 5W30 from 5W20. If you asked the guys at Summit Racing...hey I want to push my V6 engine to 450 horsepower through turbo charging...what oil should I use...do you think they will say Motorcraft 5W30 Semi Synthetic??? They would probably be sliding me a 5W40 HDEO along with a deeper oil pan to hold a few more quarts at the minimum.
Not much different than the Hellcat HEMI pushing 707 or 840HP and calling for 0w-40, which coincidentally, is what GM calls for in the new 'vettes too. Of course the N/A 6.4L also specs 0w-40, as does the heavy duty truck version that produces significantly fewer ponies.
 
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Originally Posted by Navi
If you asked the guys at Summit Racing...hey I want to push my V6 engine to 450 horsepower through turbo charging...what oil should I use...do you think they will say Motorcraft 5W30 Semi Synthetic??? They would probably be sliding me a 5W40 HDEO along with a deeper oil pan to hold a few more quarts at the minimum.
NHRA Pro Stock engines use 0W or 10W oil btw. So many reasons for that, mostly windage and parasitic losses, not longevity. Just because an OEM specifies an oil, there maybe more behind it than engine longevity, since the early 2000's i've been reading LS1 engine oil anaysis and clearly XW40 oils generally performed better in an engine specified for 5W30. (Better wear numbers opposed to 5W30). I'd agree with you, I don't care what the label says or the viscosity, whats on the oil analysis is what matters. I was reading through FOIA emails from FCA to the EPA regarding the ecodiesel. From a high level perspective they make it sound like 5W-40 has few issues. From FCA to EPA regarding MY 14-16 RAM/Jeep Ecodiesels
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We have a bearing problem due to premature bearing wear due to inadequate oil film thickness at low rpm/high engine torque conditions. The near term solution is to change then engine oil from 5W-30 to 5W-40. The higher viscosity leads to thicker oil film at the bearing. The attached file has data showing the negligible emissions effect due to the oil differences. The purpose of this communication is to seek EPA concurrence and agreement from a FE (fuel economy) perspective.
 
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