Mobil Clean 7500 5W30 Montana 4000 miles

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tmorris1

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The first sample last year was using Mobil 1 5W30. The new sample is using Clean 7500. The wear appears the same or better using the Clean 7500, but Blackstone is concerned about antifreeze. Is this really antifreeze or is this just the sodium in the Clean 7500 it has about 260ppm NA in VOA. Potassium is a little higher than the M1. Any comments.
 
I'm in dismay at the number of G.M. automobiles that show the presence of antifreeze in the engine oil (even if this isn't one of them). They are shooting themselves in the foot and don't even seem to care.
 
Do you think this is really coolant?

I have a sample from the previous oil change (3 months ago) containing M1 5W30. I took the sample with a Blackstone kit, but never mailed it. I wanted to wait to see how the Clean 7500 did. In hindsite, I shouldn't have done that after reading about all the sodium in Clean 7500. I am really looking for antifreeze with this engine, as the wear seems good. I'm not sure if this really is coolant yet. Could the Clean 7500 sodium cause a false positive for antifreeze? I also see the Potassium is a little higher than previous, but all my wear is as good or better than M1.

Would it make sense to send in the previous M1 sample to compare to my first M1 sample? I might change out the Clean 7500 for something without all the sodium and retest for coolant.
 
Just for piece of mind and since these engines are notorious for this problem, take it in to a good tech, have it pressure tested and inspected. They probably do these jobs on GMs about 3 a week!
 
quote:
Originally posted by Drew99GT:
Just for piece of mind and since these engines are notorious for this problem, take it in to a good tech, have it pressure tested and inspected. They probably do these jobs on GMs about 3 a week!
Click to expand...
That is probably the safe thing to do. I always said they should put an extra gasket in the glove box along with the owners manual.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pablo:
By all means have it confirmed. My statement is based on the .29% coolant (not the K and Na)
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Do they derive the .29% coolant from the K and NA, or is there a seperate test for this?
 
I think the coolant test is a false positive, since wear is lower across the board, compared to the last time around. If you had 0.3% raw coolant in the mix, the K and Na levels would be in the hundreds of ppm. I'd also expect to see a TR of water and higher insolubles, since coolant and water quickly forms black sludge. The Sodium is part of the additive package in this case.

I'd go 3k with lube that doesn't contain Na and re-test....
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
I'd go 3k with lube that doesn't contain Na and re-test....
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Problem though is that with that amount of sodium you will have at least 15-20 ppm sodium even with no sodium in the new oil. What oil do you have in now? I think its very likely you have antifreeze. I think the pressure test is a waste of time. It probably won't show up anything. You have a leak that opens up during temp changes. I would get the stop leak pellets sold by GM as a first step. And keep watching it. Keep your OCI's shorter also.

The likelihood of either the 3.2 or 3.4 engine leaking at the intake gasket is 100% by 100K miles..believe me.
 
I actually think it is possible to find glycol invasion, yet have relatively low Na and K. Espcially in highly pressurized cooling systems....systems that leak only when really hot. (But Na is 145!!!)
 
Al,

Oh, ye of little faith....

Haven't you heard about: "We Are Professional Grade", GM engineering?
frown.gif


On a serious note, if this was an intake leak and most of the coolant was being burned, I don't think you'd see this much raw coolant in the oil? This looks more like a head gasket leak that very recently started, with little reaction between the coolant and the oil.

I think the pressure test may yield some useful info here....

Pablo,

I would think when you burn this physical oil/coolant mixture using a rotating disk electrode or ICP, that any trace elements would still show up in the spectro signature? In fact, K and Na even show up after the coolant has chemically combined with the lube.
 
quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick:
Al,

Oh, ye of little faith....

Haven't you heard about: "We Are Professional Grade", GM engineering?
frown.gif


On a serious note, if this was an intake leak and most of the coolant was being burned, I don't think you'd see this much raw coolant in the oil? This looks more like a head gasket leak that very recently started, with little reaction between the coolant and the oil.

I think the pressure test may yield some useful info here....
Click to expand...
What you say makes sense. And perhaps the pressure test will show something. Can't hurt. My son's Pontiac bounced up and down with the Potassium range 15 to 60 and Sodium much less but still there. After 3 years she let loose. And as you implied, antifreeze was never detected at those lower levels.


Always appreciate your insight
Al
 
TS I'm not saying they wouldn't show up in the analysis - I'm basically saying it is possible to have a high pressure HG leak that allows vaporized glycol to pass, but relatively less coolant salts. In this case I would expect water too, but he may have taken a real hot sample.

Hey - you know for tmorris' sake I hope I'm wrong...but still the Na is not all native! A couple short dino flushes could prove it out.

quote:
Always appreciate your insight
Click to expand...
Me too!
 
Thanks for all the replys.
Pablo, why don't you think the sodium is not all native? The Clean 7500 has ~260 ppm sodium in a VOA. That doesn't account for the potassium though. I have another load of Clean 7500 in there. I think I will do a quick flush with a dino like Trop Artic or something that doesn't have any sodium in it according to the VOAs that Butler Cat posted. This should get most of the sodium from the Clean 7500 out of the engine. After the flush, I will run it 2 - 3,000 miles and test again. Does that sound resonable?

I haven't noticed any drop in coolant levels in the radiator itself or in the overflow tank, so if it truly is coolant, then maybe I caught it quick enough since the wear is as good or better than before. The Clean 7500 provided the same wear protection as the M1 for less than 1/2 the price.
 
What's out of wack here is the 0.29% of pure EG and the very low trace levels of Na and K. Of course, Pablo could be right and you're just getting the pure EG in there without the adds. But I honestly can't remember when I last saw that happen.

I'd still do a short run and re-test. A problem like this will only get worse if it exists and it will soon be clear if there's a reall mechanical problem here.

TS
 
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