Mobil and their lies..

SE05 · Jun 11, 2005

I appreciate marketing strategies as well as anyone, but i am offended by mobils newest adds and the information on thier web site that claims "we changed the standards" of OCI's with their new line of oils.

What a buch of ********. Manufactures ahave been recommending 7,500 mile OCI's FOR MANY YEARS, and now all of a sudden Mobil says they "changed the standards by offering a dino oil thats good for 5000 miles (they were already good for 7,500) , a synthetic blend thats good for 7,500 miles (thats what the dino oils were good for) and of course the new M1 EP.

So what new standards were set?

Absolutly none.

Entirely a marketing ploy and I dont appreciate beiong treated like a ******* and will no longer use thier products.

SE05 · Jun 11, 2005

disregard, double post

mechtech · Jun 11, 2005

It looks as if the new oil is formulated with more additives to extend it's life, and a better base mix.
So whether or not it lasted long before, it is better now.
There is improvement, they are going in the right direction, so what's the problem?

y_p_w · Jun 11, 2005

What lies?

Pennzoil has been marketing the "3000 mile oil change" for years. So has Jiffy Lube and numerous other quickie lube places.

What's different is that Mobil is providing a **warranty** if the owner uses Mobil Clean 5000 at the 5000 mile oil change interval, even under several "severe" conditions. If you read the Mobil FAQ, they also state that their oil is fine for up to the maximum change interval calculated by electronic oil change indicators.

quote:

My owner's manual says to change oil every 10,000 miles; can I still use Mobil Clean 5000?

Yes. For applications where the oil life indicator light or owner's manual recommended change interval exceeds 5,000 miles and a conventional oil is recommended, Mobil Clean 5000 will provide protection for the full oil change interval.

Quaker State has run a "warranty" program similar to the new Mobil, but with a requirement for
Everything I've heard about these new Mobil Clean 5000 oils is that they are better than their previous "Drive Clean" versions. Heck - they even meet the API CF light-duty diesel requirement that I haven't seen on conventional PCMO bottles for years.

Kestas · Jun 11, 2005

I think SE05 is objecting to the miles listed in Mobil's marketing ploy. Each manufacturer has their own recommended OCI, and beyond that, each owner has their own preferred OCI. To list the mileage on the bottle is very presumptuous on Mobil's part.

y_p_w · Jun 11, 2005

BTW - here's the warranty. It seems to be different than Quaker State's, which required that the car religiously use QS starting at some fairly low mileage, with a warranty against oil related engine failure for something like 200K miles. Mobil's warranty seems to be for the duration of the oil change.

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_Clean_5000_Warranty.aspx
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_Clean_7500_Warranty.aspx
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_Warranty.aspx

SE05 · Jun 11, 2005

Im not saying its not good/improved oil. That is not my point at all.

Once again, my point is that mobil clearly says "They are changing the standrads" of OCI's with thier new oils, when THEY ARE NOT.

Again, what standards have they changed? None.

haley10 · Jun 11, 2005

The GM oil life monitor may permit the intervals you describe. Certain GM engines specifically require synthetic oil that meets GM 4718M, so dino would not be appropriate in that case.

Marketing is a reality, but I don't have a problem with Mobil ballparking what may be doable as a reality without getting engine specific.

I see nothing wrong with giving the general pubilc a good " rule of thumb".

Having said that, I use other products, but I don't follow your logic.

SE05 · Jun 11, 2005

Look at it this way.

New car manuals(not all, but most) call for 7,500 mile OCI's, right?

So is mobil tying to sell you on thier 7,500 blended oil when the non-blended "5000" oil is perfectly capable of 7,500 miles or more?

Wha thave they changed? NOTHING. All they are doing is trying to rip people off.

haley10 · Jun 11, 2005

SE05, my GM service department has used a Mobil syn blend for years. You are not being ripped. Neither is Castrol ripping you. You will typically get a longer service life out of these oils. You may pay a bit more but investigate the TBN retention, TAN, and service life. The Blends are not rubbish like you suggest.

y_p_w · Jun 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by SE05:
Look at it this way.

New car manuals(not all, but most) call for 7,500 mile OCI's, right?

So is mobil tying to sell you on thier 7,500 blended oil when the non-blended "5000" oil is perfectly capable of 7,500 miles or more?

Wha thave they changed? NOTHING. All they are doing is trying to rip people off.

Like I said - what they've changed is that they've provided a warranty for up the the mileage on the label. What's changed is that they have provided that warranty as part of their marketing strategy. What's changed is that they will provide a longer warranty depending on which price level of oil you're willing to use.

Most new (US sold) car manuals call for 7500 mile oil changes under "normal" conditions, but 3000-5000 miles under "severe" conditions. The "severe" conditions that most people see are stop and go or short trip driving, and Mobil's warranty doesn't exclude them.

Besides - the average oil change interval in the US is around 4500 miles.

Larry the Cable Guy · Jun 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by SE05:
...Once again, my point is that mobil clearly says "They are changing the standrads" of OCI's with thier new oils, when THEY ARE NOT.

Again, what standards have they changed? None.

quote:

Originally posted by SE05:
...What thave they changed? NOTHING. All they are doing is trying to rip people off.

I don't understand how this is ripping people off, encouraging people to use LESS of their product.

If they never said, "They are changing the standards" but improved the formulation of their oil would it still be ripping people off?

Now if they didn't change their formula (that was good for, say, 5,000 miles) but they SAID that they cheapened it and it was only good for 3,000 miles (encouraging you to change it more frequently, therefore using MORE of their product) that might be construed as ripping people off.

Steve

haley10 · Jun 11, 2005

A challenge would be to run the clean 5000 vs 7500 and Castrol GTX vs. Syntec Blend, see where you get ripped off at a 7.5K oci. No lies.

y_p_w · Jun 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Larry the Cable Guy:
Now if they didn't change their formula (that was good for, say, 5,000 miles) but they SAID that they cheapened it and it was only good for 3,000 miles (encouraging you to change it more frequently, therefore using MORE of their product) that might be construed as ripping people off.

Steve

Sure. Their target for comparison isn't the manufacturers' oil change interval, but the traditional 3000 mile oil change interval espoused by Pennzoil or quickie lube places. And they'll back it up with a warranty. It still meets API SM, and if you ignore that number of the front of the oil, it still performs like an API SM oil.

I'm sure that if you're doing easy highway driving and the car's under warranty, going 7500 miles per oil change will be fine. The manufacturer's warranty will be in play. But once the manufacturer's warranty runs out, Mobil is simply providing their own assurance that they'll stand by their product.

G-MAN · Jun 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by SE05:
Again, what standards have they changed? None.

The standard they have changed is the recommended OCI that has been "set in stone" by the OIL MANUFACTURERS for years, i.e., 3000 miles.* That is what Mobil is talking about. Not the OCIs recommended by the various car makers.

*Just look at the Castrol web site. Even when talking about their Syntec line they still recommend 3000 mile oil changes.

medic · Jun 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by y_p_w:
What's different is that Mobil is providing a **warranty** if the owner uses Mobil Clean 5000 at the 5000 mile oil change interval, even under several "severe" conditions. If you read the Mobil FAQ, they also state that their oil is fine for up to the maximum change interval calculated by electronic oil change indicators.

Uhhh, no, this is not true. The warranty states that:

quote:

For vehicles covered by a warranty, follow the vehicle's oil life sensor or the oil change interval recommended in your owner's manual. Follow your owner's manual if the vehicle is operated in any of the following severe services: racing or commercial applications including taxis, limousines, etc.; frequent towing or hauling; extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or under excessive idling conditions.

Interestingly enough, while people commonly attack Amsoil for their marketing, they are defending Mobil.

Bryanccfshr · Jun 11, 2005

I am still trying to figure what the "ripp off" is.

I don't see it. Recomending that severe service be treated differently is not out of the ordinary and is good practice. Thier definition of severe service is actually quite narrow.
I am not brand loyal with oils, There is no reason to be in such a rapidly changing market. I can get awesome oils for low prices, Us at BITOG win!!

buster · Jun 11, 2005

I give credit to Amsoil and Mobil 1 for promoting extended drains. Mobil doesn't want to deal with the liability of extended drains and is factory fill in many cars, so they let the auto maker dictate. Look at it this way, if your past your warranty, Mobil is saying we have 3 oils that can go 5k, 8k, and 15k miles. Whats so bad about that in comparison to Iffy Lube telling everyone to change the oil every 3k miles? That to me is a bigger rip off. Oh btw, in Europe, it's common to run 18k to 25k miles between oil changes. These are set by the automakers.

pscholte · Jun 11, 2005

I am NO fan of the M1 product line

BUT almost everybody that wants to sell you something puts spin into their pitch...I despise the practice but that's the way it is...so don't blame JUST Mobil. I have a theory (probably not unique to me): when you hear advertising that REALLY emphasizes a certain aspect of a product (e.g. We have the longest warranty in the auto industry, it is probably because there is a problem and they need it" or "at Zyxy filters we are obsessed with quality," it could be because theirs is so bad." LET THE BUYER BEWARE...YES....YES...YES; one more thing, the REALLY good products probably don't have to do much advertising...their reputation is built through an "informal network."

y_p_w · Jun 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by medic:

quote:

Originally posted by y_p_w:
What's different is that Mobil is providing a **warranty** if the owner uses Mobil Clean 5000 at the 5000 mile oil change interval, even under several "severe" conditions. If you read the Mobil FAQ, they also state that their oil is fine for up to the maximum change interval calculated by electronic oil change indicators.

Click to expand...

Uhhh, no, this is not true. The warranty states that:

quote:

For vehicles covered by a warranty, follow the vehicle's oil life sensor or the oil change interval recommended in your owner's manual. Follow your owner's manual if the vehicle is operated in any of the following severe services: racing or commercial applications including taxis, limousines, etc.; frequent towing or hauling; extremely dusty or dirty conditions; or under excessive idling conditions.

Click to expand...

Interestingly enough, while people commonly attack Amsoil for their marketing, they are defending Mobil.

Sure - I read it.

My interpretation of the first part is, "Follow the carmaker's recommendations during the warranty period - they'll take care of any warranty issues." I don't think they have much to worry about during the warranty period, especially given that the Mobil product used has the full API certs. I think this "warranty" is really designed for cars outside the carmaker's warranty. That's where they don't include (by design) the traditional "severe service" conditions of stop & go, short trip, or cold weather driving. My 2004 Subaru warranty/maintenance booklet mentions that they consider the latter two as "severe" and recommend 3750 mile oil changes under such conditions.

Mobil and their lies..

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