Mobil 1 vs Redline

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1
Location
IL
Are the benefits of redline worth it over mobil 1? Right now I can get mobil 1 for 3.50 a qt at the local target, even cheaper than the 5 qt. jugs at wal-mart and the redline is about 7.50 a quart. Currently I am running castrol gtx and the car is a 01 ss camaro, ls1 engine. It is a weekend driver with only about 6,000 miles a year on it, but it gets driven when I drive it.
 
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33,973
Location
Southern NJ
quote:
Are the benefits of redline worth it over mobil 1?
IMO, No. I think the best oils for the money are Schaeffer's, Mobil 1 and Amsoil. I can get Amsoil for around the same price of M1, just a bit more and feel I'm getting a slightly better oil. Schaeffer's from what I've seen is your best bang for the buck, however you would have to order it. Redline on paper looks to be the best oil out there, but I've seen no evidence it is in the UOA section. I think for 99% of all cars, Redline is not necessary.
 
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9,448
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USA
If you were 40 year old mother of 4 soccer mom driveing her your Expidition home from soccer games at 70MPh I would say no! The marginal return is not their for that type of usage. On the other hand in a vechile that sees sustained high temps, high loads, is driven hard or is just putting out alot of HP per liter then you will see drastic differences. Redline is the most wear resistant oil in most vechiles. It does not do too much beter then M1 at extended drains (may be an extra 2000 miles) but it will not vranish and leave deposits like M1 does. It will with out a doubt lower the temps in your vette buy 25 degrees under WOT. I have tested Redline fluids in C5's being raced both professional and amatures. I know what it will do for the C5's engine, transmission and transaxle. It will also give you some more HP at the dyno! You will pay $7.50 a quart for Redline but it is the only oil I would use in a performance engine or anything that I am going to be punishing!!
 

Patman

Staff member
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21,988
Location
Oakville, Ontario
On an LS1, I think there is a definite advantage when you run Redline over Mobil 1. Mobil 1 tends to burn off a lot more in the LS1, while Redline drops that amount quite a bit in many cases. Plus I do believe Redline will show lower wear numbers over Mobil 1 in almost any engine. And it'll keep the engine cleaner also. Mobil 1 is a good oil, but it's not a great oil. It's a notch below what I like to call the best of the best (which is Schaeffer Oil, Redline and Amsoil, in no particular order)
 
Messages
33,973
Location
Southern NJ
quote:
You will pay $7.50 a quart for Redline but it is the only oil I would use in a performance engine or anything that I am going to be punishing!!
I would do the same. I like the higher esters of Redline and Amsoil. Less deposits is a definite plus when chosing one of these two oils.
 
Messages
149
Location
Carlsbad CA
quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning: If you were 40 year old mother of 4 soccer mom driveing her your Expidition home from soccer games at 70MPh I would say no! The marginal return is not their for that type of usage. On the other hand in a vechile that sees sustained high temps, high loads, is driven hard or is just putting out alot of HP per liter then you will see drastic differences. Redline is the most wear resistant oil in most vechiles. It does not do too much beter then M1 at extended drains (may be an extra 2000 miles) but it will not vranish and leave deposits like M1 does. It will with out a doubt lower the temps in your vette buy 25 degrees under WOT. I have tested Redline fluids in C5's being raced both professional and amatures. I know what it will do for the C5's engine, transmission and transaxle. It will also give you some more HP at the dyno! You will pay $7.50 a quart for Redline but it is the only oil I would use in a performance engine or anything that I am going to be punishing!!
John, do you have any actual experience with M1 leaving these deposits and varnish? Some folks have biases that are based on anything but fact. If I were racing, I would also use Redline, as its formulated for that, and priced accordingly. But I recently pulled the pan on my 150K mile SHO to change rod bearings (not noisy, just figured it was time) and the pan was so clean I didn't do anything but a quick solvent rinse. Used M1 since 1994 in this car. Compared to all the dyno oil SHOs I've seen, esp. Castrol, PZ and QS which will turn everything different shades of brown. Mike
 

Al

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19,154
Location
Elizabethtown, Pa
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Thompson: [QUOTE] Some folks have biases that are based on anything but fact. If I were racing, I would also use Redline, as its formulated for that, and priced accordingly. But I recently pulled the pan on my 150K mile SHO to change rod bearings (not noisy, just figured it was time) and the pan was so clean I didn't do anything but a quick solvent rinse. Used M1 since 1994 in this car. Compared to all the dyno oil SHOs I've seen, esp. Castrol, PZ and QS which will turn everything different shades of brown. Mike
I agree here. And I am not defending Mobil 1 over other oils. But In spite of all of the words-we have yet to see many (or any) great UOA's by Redline. In contrast we have seen tons of good reports by Amsoil and Mobil1. I do have to agree "on paper" the Redline should give better results due to the Esters. But I would like to see facts/Proof (UOA's) [Smile] JohnBrowning : Can you give any evidence that Redline outperforms M1
 
Messages
33,973
Location
Southern NJ
quote:
And I am not defending Mobil 1 over other oils. But In spite of all of the words-we have yet to see many (or any) great UOA's by Redline. In contrast we have seen tons of good reports by Amsoil and Mobil1
Very true. Amsoil and M1 seem to be some of the most consistant oils out there. I think we sometimes put down M1 to often but it is a great oil. Redline looks so much better on paper and probably is in racing engines, but reality is most cars don't need it. I don't think M1 will leave deposits behind at all. Maybe more then Amsoil or Redline but it aparently keeps engines very clean. [Smile]
 
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903
Location
CA
I posted a picture some time ago showing a small amount of deposits in my '88 CRX valve train that's been running M1 for the last 150,000 miles. I ran dino in it first 2-3 years I had it. The deposits are very soft and you just touch it with your finger and it comes off. Edit: Here's a photo  - [ May 11, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: satterfi ]
 
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33,973
Location
Southern NJ
Thats really whata it comes down to when comparing Mobil 1 to Redline or Amsoil is the added esters which jack up the price. For $4-$5 there is only so much you can do.
 
Messages
903
Location
CA
Here's the photo again since the last web site quit working. I don't see the varnish JohnBrowning is talking about, just some minor deposits.  -
 
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9,448
Location
USA
Yes, I have alot of experince with vechiles that have been run on M1 most of their lives if not their whole life. Mostly BMW's and Asian imports. They all tend to develop varnish but never sludge. I was a Tech. for 12 year 14 if you count trade school. I have had plenty of opertunity to see the inside of various engines due to maintence and failed componets. The M1 engines while aside from the problem being fixed(usualy timeing belt,chains, tensioners, bypass piston and spring.....) have alway been in perfect shape at the bearing's and critical wear area. It is too easy to loosen a cap and put some plasti-guage in to measure the clearance. The varnish is disturbing to look at but the engines always seemed to be fine.I also noticed that the rings had the same type of build up you would see with conventional oil but it was not sticky and it wiped off with a wet solvent dampened rag. I have worked on 1000's of engines and transaxle. More then 3/4 of these vechiles were driven on the German Autobahn. I have been useing M1 since 1988 in my personal vechiles and converted my Mother and Father to synthetics around 1991. I quite spinning wrench's while I was in college but am still working in the industry. I have never seen any damage come from this buildup so I continue to use M1 in my daily drivers. I used to use a chemical flush every 50,000 miles but no I am useing Auto-RX and considering Nuetra 131 to prevent or remove the varnish. I belive that the varnish is fundemental to M1 make up(PAO). I think that the fact that the synthetic oil clings to the pores of the metal so much better that the componets see more heat and end up cooking in place instead of running down into the pan as they get hot. The varnish produced has more adhession then varnish from non-synthetic oil. The lack of expensive esters in M1 means the varnish is allowed to stay put and is not removed buy the new mobile one at the next oil change.I do not think that the normaly detergent and dispersents are strong enough to budge the stuff. I have seen this in my personel vechiles and my family vechiles and we have always changed at 5K-6K. I also have only seen this build up on the metal and alloy parts the seals must stay cool enough to not be affected. Just my .02 cents worth.
 
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903
Location
CA
Actually it's 50k with GTX then 150k with M1 for a total of 203K. My plan is to change over to Redline and the next time I adjust valves I'll take another photo to compare. I didn't clean off that dirty spot you can see on the #3 cylinder cam holder.
 
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33,973
Location
Southern NJ
How do we really know M1 SS is mostly PAO and won't clean as well? Weren't we all debating whether or not M1 even had any esters? I thought the SS formula was ester based?
 
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2,095
Location
IL
Edit: misread Buster's post. We know, or rather Molakule knows, from SAE technical papers published by MOBIL. [ May 12, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]
 
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9,448
Location
USA
satterfi, Your cylinder head did indeed look good. I have to admit though that I have seen engines run on dino oil that looked almost as good at the head!
 
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