Mobil 1 V-Twin - why no JASO spec?

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Originally Posted By: rossn2

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its geared towards harleys.Not needed with their dry clutch


Why would oil be needed in a dry-clutch system?

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Here is the clutch I'm familiar with.I have never seen any other setup here. [img:center]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRSzODccins&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/img]



This is for an aftermarket system or some of the custom-built bikes, NOT for a factory built HD.

Why do people constantly make statements about a motorcycle they don't own or ever work on?
Sorry! I have worked on a HD clutch, Actually a couple and my boss's kid had a HD shop in our shop for a while and All I have ever seen were a dry clutch. I did not know those were older or aftermarket. I just ASSUMED that they were all a dry clutch. The last one I saw had an S&S motor and an aftermarket trans and I was asked to bring my big impact over to loosen the clutch drum after all the plates were removed. BTW on this setup you can see the pressure plate move when you squeeze the clutch lever.
 
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last one I saw had an S&S motor and an aftermarket trans


Didn't know Harley Davidson (MOCO) produces bikes with a S&S engine and aftermarket transmission?
 
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Originally Posted By: SlipperyPete
They probably figure a cruiser rider willing to settle for poor handling and suspension probably won't notice a poorly performing clutch anyway.
grin.gif



That's funny, right there.
 
Originally Posted By: rossn2
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last one I saw had an S&S motor and an aftermarket trans


Didn't know Harley Davidson (MOCO) produces bikes with a S&S engine and aftermarket transmission?


They don't.
And I've never seen a dry clutch on a Harley.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The lower zddp levels do not apply to Xw-40 grades.


It appears that the API rating of SM involves any oil that wishes to obtain the SM rating regardless of oil weight. For instance, if you check out Mobil's oil, whether it's energy conserving, motorcycle specific, or high mileage, the vast majority are in transition or already labeled as SM rated: Mobil High Mileage- 5W20, 5W30, and 10W40, along with standard 10W40, motorcycle specific 10W40, 15W50 Race Oil, and the 5W40 Turbo Diesel to name a handful.
 
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The lower zddp levels do not apply to Xw-40 grades.


It appears that the API rating of SM involves any oil that wishes to obtain the SM rating regardless of oil weight.

Incorrect. Take a look at the API specification. All Xw-20 and Xw-30 grades have stricter limits. This goes for API SN as well...

APISM.png


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For instance, if you check out Mobil's oil, whether it's energy conserving, motorcycle specific, or high mileage, the vast majority are in transition or already labeled as SM rated: Mobil High Mileage- 5W20, 5W30, and 10W40,

Not so. M1 HM 5w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30 are rated API SL, precisely because of the limits I mentioned above. Only M1 HM 10w-40 is API SN/SM because the limits don't apply to Xw-40 grades.
 
Quattro, do you have a similar snapshot of min specs for the JASO MA and MA2? I am wondering if the JASO min spec for foaming tendency is the same as it is for the API SM spec.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Analyzer
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The lower zddp levels do not apply to Xw-40 grades.


It appears that the API rating of SM involves any oil that wishes to obtain the SM rating regardless of oil weight.

Incorrect. Take a look at the API specification. All Xw-20 and Xw-30 grades have stricter limits. This goes for API SN as well...

APISM.png


Quote:

For instance, if you check out Mobil's oil, whether it's energy conserving, motorcycle specific, or high mileage, the vast majority are in transition or already labeled as SM rated: Mobil High Mileage- 5W20, 5W30, and 10W40,

Not so. M1 HM 5w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30 are rated API SL, precisely because of the limits I mentioned above. Only M1 HM 10w-40 is API SN/SM because the limits don't apply to Xw-40 grades.


My bad I hadn't noticed my typo, I meant the 10W40 as the High Mileage variant, while the other weights (5w-20, 5w-30, and 10w-30) were the standard Mobil 1 Synthetic with the SM rating. Thanks for the chart on the SM rated oils! I've had a hard time finding anything as in depth as the chart you provided, do you have a link to the website or one similar?

That's interesting that the rep from Mobil said they didn't want to conform to the lower ZDDP levels in the 20W50...I wonder if he had no clue what he was talking about, or if Mobil wanted to retain the SJ cert. for some particular reason; even though in the 20W50 weight they wouldn't have to meet those limitations? Odd to say the least.
 
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I think I may have cracked why Mobil 1 V-Twin 20W50 does not carry the JASO compliance. Everything seems to match up between the API SM requirements and the 2006 JASO MA requirements except JASO MA restricts Phosphorus to between 800 and 1200ppm. Mobil 1 V-Twin has more Phos than that, around 1600ppm going from memory off Mobil's Zinc/Phos content chart dated April 2013 for all their oils. I'll have to wait until I get home to confirm but I remember V-Twin had 1600+ ppm for Zinc and Phos whereas their Racing 4T 10W40 had 1200, thus placing Racing 4T into JASO compliance (for those two AW additives) but keeping V-Twin outside of JASO compliance for having too much. V-twin appears to meet all other JASO MA min specs.
 
Mobil 1 V-twin motorcycle oil doesn't have to meet any spec.There is no API spec for motorcycle oil, just a recommendation. They claim it meets API spec SJ, and I believe that's just a happy coincidence.,,Specifications and Approvals

Mobil 1 Motorcycle Oils meet or exceed the requirements of: Racing 4T V-Twin
API SM X
API SL X
API SJ X X
JASO MA X



According to ExxonMobil, product(s) is of the following quality level:
API SH X
API CF X X


Typical Properties

Mobil 1 Motorcycle Oils Racing 4T V-Twin
Engine/Application Type 4-Cycle 4-Cycle
SAE Grade 10W-40 20W-50
Service Classification API SM,SL, SJ,SH,CF,JASO MA API SJ,CF
Density, g/ml @ 15.6°C (ASTM D4052) 0.86 0.87
Flash Point, °C (ASTM D93), 212 214
Pour Point,°C (ASTM D97) -45 -42
Kinematic Viscosity, cSt @ 40°C (ASTM D445) 82.0 172.3
Kinematic Viscosity, cSt @ 100°C (ASTM D445) 13.1 20.8
Viscosity Index 161 142
Cold Cranking, cP (ASTM D5293) 4,640 @ -25°C 7,500 @ -15°C
Pumping, cP (ASTM D4684) 11,700 @ -30°C 14,000 @ -20°C
 
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