Mobil 1 turning dark at 600 miles
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maybe it's better you put it on a white paper and show everyone...
no worry about colour... M1 is a decent oil...
no worry about colour... M1 is a decent oil...
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
bill,
so what do u think is causing the oil to get dark within the 500 - 800 mile range? for some reason, i feel you may know the answer.
I do. So does;
Originally Posted By: buster
Most oils become dark fairly quickly in my cars. I've always found that no matter what oil was used. Color has little to do with how well the oil is performing.
Some oils start off more dark than others and some have additives that cause them to become more dark.
And;
Originally Posted By: webfors
or more accurately how an add pack reacts to the elements introduced by a particular engine. PP tends to get quite dark in my Forester after 4-5k miles. That being said, the first oci of PP last year was black after 2k miles when I dumped it.
Moral of the story is color doesn't matter
Hint; BOTH of them are correct.
So we have the camp who says *if* a oil is doing its job then it should be dirty.
Then the other camp who says if the oil is staying clear, it shows the oil is doing its job.
I guess you are in the camp that the oil first will get dirty and then after the changes stay clean?
I'm in the camp it does not matter.
I've had engines and oils that do both. And in the end the UOAs and even more *important* the engines go hundreds of thousands of miles with NO PROBLEMS.
Bill
i do agree with you that engines will last hundreds of thousands of miles if taken cared for...but this is a discussion board and people are interested in these topics so that it can be discussed. for me, i truly believe that synthetics are more than adequate to protect an engine over conventional..but isnt that what we all want. to always strive to find the best. i can easily use conventional oil and know that it's adequate but i certainly wont be satisfied. btw, it does matter or else we wont be discussing it
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
bill,
so what do u think is causing the oil to get dark within the 500 - 800 mile range? for some reason, i feel you may know the answer.
I do. So does;
Originally Posted By: buster
Most oils become dark fairly quickly in my cars. I've always found that no matter what oil was used. Color has little to do with how well the oil is performing.
Some oils start off more dark than others and some have additives that cause them to become more dark.
And;
Originally Posted By: webfors
or more accurately how an add pack reacts to the elements introduced by a particular engine. PP tends to get quite dark in my Forester after 4-5k miles. That being said, the first oci of PP last year was black after 2k miles when I dumped it.
Moral of the story is color doesn't matter
Hint; BOTH of them are correct.
So we have the camp who says *if* a oil is doing its job then it should be dirty.
Then the other camp who says if the oil is staying clear, it shows the oil is doing its job.
I guess you are in the camp that the oil first will get dirty and then after the changes stay clean?
I'm in the camp it does not matter.
I've had engines and oils that do both. And in the end the UOAs and even more *important* the engines go hundreds of thousands of miles with NO PROBLEMS.
Bill
i do agree with you that engines will last hundreds of thousands of miles if taken cared for...but this is a discussion board and people are interested in these topics so that it can be discussed. for me, i truly believe that synthetics are more than adequate to protect an engine over conventional..but isnt that what we all want. to always strive to find the best. i can easily use conventional oil and know that it's adequate but i certainly wont be satisfied. btw, it does matter or else we wont be discussing it
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
i do agree with you that engines will last hundreds of thousands of miles if taken cared for...but this is a discussion board and people are interested in these topics so that it can be discussed. for me, i truly believe that synthetics are more than adequate to protect an engine over conventional..but isnt that what we all want. to always strive to find the best. i can easily use conventional oil and know that it's adequate but i certainly wont be satisfied. btw, it does matter or else we wont be discussing it
And how does that relate to the color of the oil that we *were* discussing?
So you admit that since you KNOW that conventional is "adequate" but syn is better, what are you getting for the extra $$ you are spending?
That is why we discuss oils here. The people who come here with the mindset (that has been very well set by oil company marketing) that only syn will do and the rest are [censored] (and we have PLENTY of those koolaid drinkers here) are the ones who spew "xx miles" period.
Without even knowing what the person asking the question drives!
Or how they operate it...
But back to the color issue...
It does not matter.
i do agree with you that engines will last hundreds of thousands of miles if taken cared for...but this is a discussion board and people are interested in these topics so that it can be discussed. for me, i truly believe that synthetics are more than adequate to protect an engine over conventional..but isnt that what we all want. to always strive to find the best. i can easily use conventional oil and know that it's adequate but i certainly wont be satisfied. btw, it does matter or else we wont be discussing it
And how does that relate to the color of the oil that we *were* discussing?
So you admit that since you KNOW that conventional is "adequate" but syn is better, what are you getting for the extra $$ you are spending?
That is why we discuss oils here. The people who come here with the mindset (that has been very well set by oil company marketing) that only syn will do and the rest are [censored] (and we have PLENTY of those koolaid drinkers here) are the ones who spew "xx miles" period.
Without even knowing what the person asking the question drives!
Or how they operate it...
But back to the color issue...
It does not matter.
I have a UOA of oil where it turned black within the first 1000 KM (600 Miles) and one from an oil that didn't. The oil that turned black was in much better shape and suitable for continued use whereas the honey gold one was almost spent.
To sum it all up, colour is not a good indicator of the oils condition. Only TBN & TAN tests from UOA's can help you here.
To sum it all up, colour is not a good indicator of the oils condition. Only TBN & TAN tests from UOA's can help you here.
I've had this happen w/ many oils, in various cars.
I don't think it means much, good oil though.
I don't think it means much, good oil though.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
i do agree with you that engines will last hundreds of thousands of miles if taken cared for...but this is a discussion board and people are interested in these topics so that it can be discussed. for me, i truly believe that synthetics are more than adequate to protect an engine over conventional..but isnt that what we all want. to always strive to find the best. i can easily use conventional oil and know that it's adequate but i certainly wont be satisfied. btw, it does matter or else we wont be discussing it
And how does that relate to the color of the oil that we *were* discussing?
So you admit that since you KNOW that conventional is "adequate" but syn is better, what are you getting for the extra $$ you are spending?
That is why we discuss oils here. The people who come here with the mindset (that has been very well set by oil company marketing) that only syn will do and the rest are [censored] (and we have PLENTY of those koolaid drinkers here) are the ones who spew "xx miles" period.
Without even knowing what the person asking the question drives!
Or how they operate it...
But back to the color issue...
It does not matter.
Bill,
i pay the extra dollars because synthetic is better and because conventional is just "adequate"
the dark color doesnt matter because it's only been in there for 843 miles. but the reason why it became dark does matter. im interested to know.
BTW Bill, i personally want to send you a case of motor oil for free since you have been very helpful. would u like me to send you a case of Yellow Bottle Pennzoil or Mobil 1 Extended Performance?
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
i do agree with you that engines will last hundreds of thousands of miles if taken cared for...but this is a discussion board and people are interested in these topics so that it can be discussed. for me, i truly believe that synthetics are more than adequate to protect an engine over conventional..but isnt that what we all want. to always strive to find the best. i can easily use conventional oil and know that it's adequate but i certainly wont be satisfied. btw, it does matter or else we wont be discussing it
And how does that relate to the color of the oil that we *were* discussing?
So you admit that since you KNOW that conventional is "adequate" but syn is better, what are you getting for the extra $$ you are spending?
That is why we discuss oils here. The people who come here with the mindset (that has been very well set by oil company marketing) that only syn will do and the rest are [censored] (and we have PLENTY of those koolaid drinkers here) are the ones who spew "xx miles" period.
Without even knowing what the person asking the question drives!
Or how they operate it...
But back to the color issue...
It does not matter.
Bill,
i pay the extra dollars because synthetic is better and because conventional is just "adequate"
the dark color doesnt matter because it's only been in there for 843 miles. but the reason why it became dark does matter. im interested to know.
BTW Bill, i personally want to send you a case of motor oil for free since you have been very helpful. would u like me to send you a case of Yellow Bottle Pennzoil or Mobil 1 Extended Performance?
I'd REALLY take the Pennzoil YB.
REALLY...
No kidding.
Why? Because the Pennzoil is just as good at the Mobil 1 EP in the OCIS that I'd run.
And there are 12 quarts per case of Pennzoil vs 6 of the Mobil 1.
Nice try though....
Bill
REALLY...
No kidding.
Why? Because the Pennzoil is just as good at the Mobil 1 EP in the OCIS that I'd run.
And there are 12 quarts per case of Pennzoil vs 6 of the Mobil 1.
Nice try though....
Bill
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Mark888
I don't think it is the add pack getting dark. It must be cleaning a dirty engine. I used M1 for 11 years on my last car, and it stayed surprisingly light-colored compared to conventional oil I used on other cars, even up to my 7K miles OCI. Because I used M1 on a new car from 3K miles onward for 11 years, the engine never got dirty.
What about this post?
Originally Posted By: dkryan
I ran M-1 0w40 in my 2002 Saab 9-3 (2.0L) for 5k mile OCIs. I stood there and watched them pour the new oil in and it was dark after 500 miles on the new oil. And it happened with every oil change.
Ran Mobil 1 EVERY oil change. Cleaning the stuff that Mobil 1 left?
Isn't that a turbo engine (Saab)? Some engines will cause the oil to get dirty with any oil with a good detergent package.
Originally Posted By: Mark888
I don't think it is the add pack getting dark. It must be cleaning a dirty engine. I used M1 for 11 years on my last car, and it stayed surprisingly light-colored compared to conventional oil I used on other cars, even up to my 7K miles OCI. Because I used M1 on a new car from 3K miles onward for 11 years, the engine never got dirty.
What about this post?
Originally Posted By: dkryan
I ran M-1 0w40 in my 2002 Saab 9-3 (2.0L) for 5k mile OCIs. I stood there and watched them pour the new oil in and it was dark after 500 miles on the new oil. And it happened with every oil change.
Ran Mobil 1 EVERY oil change. Cleaning the stuff that Mobil 1 left?
Isn't that a turbo engine (Saab)? Some engines will cause the oil to get dirty with any oil with a good detergent package.
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I noticed different oils in my car turn different colors throughout the oci:
Mobil 1-stays crystal clear
Pennzoil yb-stays crystal clear as well
Valvoline VR1-turns flourescent yellow
Valvoline wb-turns flourescent yellow
Royal Purple-turns very dark brown
All my oci`s are every 3 months regardless of mileage
Mobil 1-stays crystal clear
Pennzoil yb-stays crystal clear as well
Valvoline VR1-turns flourescent yellow
Valvoline wb-turns flourescent yellow
Royal Purple-turns very dark brown
All my oci`s are every 3 months regardless of mileage
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I'd REALLY take the Pennzoil YB.
REALLY...
No kidding.
Why? Because the Pennzoil is just as good at the Mobil 1 EP in the OCIS that I'd run.
And there are 12 quarts per case of Pennzoil vs 6 of the Mobil 1.
Nice try though....
Bill
No No...Ill send you 12 quarts of Pennzoil Yellow Bottle or 12 quarts of Mobil 1 Extended Performance. Let me know...Thanks again Bill
I'd REALLY take the Pennzoil YB.
REALLY...
No kidding.
Why? Because the Pennzoil is just as good at the Mobil 1 EP in the OCIS that I'd run.
And there are 12 quarts per case of Pennzoil vs 6 of the Mobil 1.
Nice try though....
Bill
No No...Ill send you 12 quarts of Pennzoil Yellow Bottle or 12 quarts of Mobil 1 Extended Performance. Let me know...Thanks again Bill
Originally Posted By: MBCLK
No No...Ill send you 12 quarts of Pennzoil Yellow Bottle or 12 quarts of Mobil 1 Extended Performance. Let me know...Thanks again Bill
I'd still take the Pennzoil. Its a better oil for the OCI I use.
Never been impressed with Mobil 1. I don't fall for the marketing.
I've run BOTH (have you?) for many miles and know what works for my engines.
Plus, I'll save you some serious change. :2cents:
And 12 quarts of Mobil 1 is 2 cases.
Take care, bill
PS: Since you think 12 quarts of Mobil 1 is a case, can we go old school and have 24 quarts of Pennzoil YB as a case? (like it used to be when quarts of oil had metal ends)
No No...Ill send you 12 quarts of Pennzoil Yellow Bottle or 12 quarts of Mobil 1 Extended Performance. Let me know...Thanks again Bill
I'd still take the Pennzoil. Its a better oil for the OCI I use.
Never been impressed with Mobil 1. I don't fall for the marketing.
I've run BOTH (have you?) for many miles and know what works for my engines.
Plus, I'll save you some serious change. :2cents:
And 12 quarts of Mobil 1 is 2 cases.
Take care, bill
PS: Since you think 12 quarts of Mobil 1 is a case, can we go old school and have 24 quarts of Pennzoil YB as a case? (like it used to be when quarts of oil had metal ends)
Originally Posted By: dkryan
I ran M-1 0w40 in my 2002 Saab 9-3 (2.0L) for 5k mile OCIs. I stood there and watched them pour the new oil in and it was dark after 500 miles on the new oil. And it happened with every oil change.
Quote:
Isn't that a turbo engine (Saab)? Some engines will cause the oil to get dirty with any oil with a good detergent package.
I neglected to mention the M-1 0w40 turned dark within 500 miles, beginning with the first M-1 oil change at 3k miles in that Saab turbo. I seriously doubt there was any real "cleaning" going on that early in the engine's life.
When it turned dark within 500 miles after my second M-1 oil change, I shrugged my shoulders and focused on more important things.
Unfortunately, I never UOA'd any of those M-1 0w40 runs, as I was stuck on Saabnet.com and was unaware of BITOG at the time.
Off topic: I was in Sarah Fisher's garage on Saturday before the Indy 500 and I noticed a case or two of M-1 0w40 on the shelf near the car. I also noticed a couple of bottles sitting out on the shelf. I don't recall having seen any M-1 stickers on the car.
I doubt the oil was for the golf carts.
I ran M-1 0w40 in my 2002 Saab 9-3 (2.0L) for 5k mile OCIs. I stood there and watched them pour the new oil in and it was dark after 500 miles on the new oil. And it happened with every oil change.
Quote:
Isn't that a turbo engine (Saab)? Some engines will cause the oil to get dirty with any oil with a good detergent package.
I neglected to mention the M-1 0w40 turned dark within 500 miles, beginning with the first M-1 oil change at 3k miles in that Saab turbo. I seriously doubt there was any real "cleaning" going on that early in the engine's life.
When it turned dark within 500 miles after my second M-1 oil change, I shrugged my shoulders and focused on more important things.
Unfortunately, I never UOA'd any of those M-1 0w40 runs, as I was stuck on Saabnet.com and was unaware of BITOG at the time.
Off topic: I was in Sarah Fisher's garage on Saturday before the Indy 500 and I noticed a case or two of M-1 0w40 on the shelf near the car. I also noticed a couple of bottles sitting out on the shelf. I don't recall having seen any M-1 stickers on the car.
I doubt the oil was for the golf carts.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Challenge. YB is not better than M1 EP period.
Good. You buy 2 cars. Put EP in one and YB in the other.
Drive them both with OCIs of 5k for 250,000 miles and then take both of them apart.
Get back to me.
Bottom line, they both will make it with no problems. The ONLY difference will be one cost more in oil than the other. Both will be running well, both will be clean and both would have gotten within a MPG of the other.
Plus, most people don't;
A. drive 250k before selling/trading in/crashing
B. change their oil every 5k....
C. stay with the same brand of oil
D. Most oil companies do not stay with the same mix of oil in the time it take to get 250k.
I've done 250k+. Many in my family and friends have done it. No one has run Mobil 1 EP.
All of the engines are just fine. They pass dyno smog. They get within a MPG or 2 of EPA or when the engine was new.
How do we do this (and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of others) without using Syn oil?
It's just magic!
Or we are lucky?
Or some people are falling for the marketing and spending $$ that in the end DOES NOT MATTER.
Again, I've said it many times....
If you NEED syn (ie Corvettes, Turbos, it says it in the manual) run it.
If you WANT to run it great!
But don't tell us that you HAVE to and if we don't our engines will self destruct and will not last.
Because its not TRUE.
Your turn....
Challenge. YB is not better than M1 EP period.
Good. You buy 2 cars. Put EP in one and YB in the other.
Drive them both with OCIs of 5k for 250,000 miles and then take both of them apart.
Get back to me.
Bottom line, they both will make it with no problems. The ONLY difference will be one cost more in oil than the other. Both will be running well, both will be clean and both would have gotten within a MPG of the other.
Plus, most people don't;
A. drive 250k before selling/trading in/crashing
B. change their oil every 5k....
C. stay with the same brand of oil
D. Most oil companies do not stay with the same mix of oil in the time it take to get 250k.
I've done 250k+. Many in my family and friends have done it. No one has run Mobil 1 EP.
All of the engines are just fine. They pass dyno smog. They get within a MPG or 2 of EPA or when the engine was new.
How do we do this (and MILLIONS and MILLIONS of others) without using Syn oil?
It's just magic!
Or we are lucky?
Or some people are falling for the marketing and spending $$ that in the end DOES NOT MATTER.
Again, I've said it many times....
If you NEED syn (ie Corvettes, Turbos, it says it in the manual) run it.
If you WANT to run it great!
But don't tell us that you HAVE to and if we don't our engines will self destruct and will not last.
Because its not TRUE.
Your turn....
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