Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5W-30 pour point

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358
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Kewaunee WI
The pour point of M1 truck and suv 5w30 is -54c and standard M1 is -48c Could this be a sign that the truck and suv oil has a better base oil?
 
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1,084
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Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: 2003f7
The pour point of M1 truck and suv 5w30 is -54c and standard M1 is -48c Could this be a sign that the truck and suv oil has a better base oil?
It may be a sign that it has more Group IV/V base stock. But that does not always make it better depending on your application. The reason for that is that synthetic oils with very high levels of Group IV/V are less likely to be certified as energy conserving formulas, even though the viscosity rating is the same. Note that the Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5W-30 is not energy saving formula certified from what I can tell, while the regular Mobil 1 5W-30 is energy saving formula certified. This may be related to the fact that they have different densities (0.86 vs 0.80). So while it may appear that a Group IV/V oil is better than a Group III (it certainly will last longer) it may increase oil pressure just a little and put slightly more strain on engine components. This has MPG implications obviously, but there may be other implications as well, depending on what the engine manufacturer had in mind when the engine was designed and tested. Unless you have a large truck engine or a turbo (or an older engine) that would benefit from the higher amounts of Group IV/V base stocks, then it may not be advisable to use the Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5W-30 oil if you have a fairly new engine designed and tested to use an energy saving formula. If you have an older engine of any type, it might be fine, and maybe even a good idea. There are other oils with very high levels of Group IV/V base stock that are not energy saving certified. Almost all of the high quality 100% Synthetic Amsoil products lack official certification, while their Group III oils are certified. The Amsoil 100% Synthetics are very high quality oils, but they may not be appropriate for all applications.
 
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1,093
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Kentucky
Mobil 1 TSUV is ILSAC GF-4 with the starburst symbol, energy conserving. According to Mobil 1 tech services, it has more moly, more boron, more magnesium, and more antioxidants than the regular Mobil 1 5W-30. The HTHS of the base oils is the same as the regular 5W-30. Amsoil only submits their GP III, the XL series for certification. They do not submit/seek certification for their other oils.
 
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1,084
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Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: FrankN4
Amsoil only submits their GP III, the XL series for certification. They do not submit/seek certification for their other oils.
Yes, and the question is why (aside from the explanation that they give and that I don't buy). Mobil 1 EP oils were not energy conserving formulas until fairly recently when the changed the formulas. The point is that having a higher amount of Group IV/V base stock is not always the best oil for every application.
 
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1,084
Location
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 Originally Posted By: FrankN4
Mobil 1 TSUV is ILSAC GF-4 with the starburst symbol, energy conserving.
Maybe I just don't see it, but it is not listed on their website. If that is true, their specs may be wrong and maybe the pour points are the same (pour points of most M1 oils has changed over the years). But in general, I don't think M1 likes to talk about PAO levels in their oils or any difference between oils in that regard. So I am not sure they would admit a difference if there was one with regard to base stock.
 
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1,093
Location
Kentucky
OK....I am referring to the Mobil 1 5W-30 Truck and Sport Utility Vehicle (TSUV) oil. Are you referring to the TDT truck oil? The MObil 1 web site shows a picture of the bottle with the Starburst in the lower right hand corner. Their web site also says ILSAC GF-4. In the blue band on the back of the bottle it says ILSAC GF-4, API SM, SL/CF. In the doughnut it says API service SM/CF on the top and Energy Conserving on the bottom. I can't answer for Amsoil. Try Gary or Pablo for more accurate answers about the Amsoil products. I do know that Amsoil claims ACEA A1/A5, IlSAC GF-4. If they don't, and one can prove it, one would own Amsoil.
 
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Location
Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: FrankN4
OK....I am referring to the Mobil 1 5W-30 Truck and Sport Utility Vehicle (TSUV) oil. Are you referring to the TDT truck oil? The MObil 1 web site shows a picture of the bottle with the Starburst in the lower right hand corner. Their web site also says ILSAC GF-4. In the blue band on the back of the bottle it says ILSAC GF-4, API SM, SL/CF. In the doughnut it says API service SM/CF on the top and Energy Conserving on the bottom. I can't answer for Amsoil. Try Gary or Pablo for more accurate answers about the Amsoil products. I do know that Amsoil claims ACEA A1/A5, IlSAC GF-4. If they don't, and one can prove it, one would own Amsoil.
I was referring to the Mobil 1 5W-30 Truck and Sport Utility Vehicle (TSUV) oil (not the TDT truck oil). I don't see the text "energy conserving formula" or "starburst" anywhere in the specs on the webpage like I do for the regular 5W-30. The starburst on the picture is too small for me to read it, but if you say that is what it says, I believe you. I am not sure that the Mobil 1 specs on the website are all that accurate. Amsoil uses tricky language when it comes to certification. The say that XXXX 100% Synthetic oil is recommended when the following certifications (ACEA A1/A5, IlSAC GF-4, etc) are required, but don't say that Amsoil 100% synthetics are actually certified (unlike their non-100% Synthetic oils which are certified).
 
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If oem car mfg recommended 5w30 GF-4 API SM,SL Mobil 1 5w30 truck and SUV will run in any application no matter what...
 

JAG

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5,320
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
 Originally Posted By: Mark888
The reason for that is that synthetic oils with very high levels of Group IV/V are less likely to be certified as energy conserving formulas, even though the viscosity rating is the same. Note that the Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5W-30 is not energy saving formula certified from what I can tell, while the regular Mobil 1 5W-30 is energy saving formula certified. This may be related to the fact that they have different densities (0.86 vs 0.80). So while it may appear that a Group IV/V oil is better than a Group III (it certainly will last longer) it may increase oil pressure just a little and put slightly more strain on engine components. This has MPG implications obviously, but there may be other implications as well, depending on what the engine manufacturer had in mind when the engine was designed and tested. Unless you have a large truck engine or a turbo (or an older engine) that would benefit from the higher amounts of Group IV/V base stocks, then it may not be advisable to use the Mobil 1 Truck and SUV 5W-30 oil if you have a fairly new engine designed and tested to use an energy saving formula. If you have an older engine of any type, it might be fine, and maybe even a good idea. There are other oils with very high levels of Group IV/V base stock that are not energy saving certified. Almost all of the high quality 100% Synthetic Amsoil products lack official certification, while their Group III oils are certified. The Amsoil 100% Synthetics are very high quality oils, but they may not be appropriate for all applications.
Gas mileage has been shown to correlate reasonably well with HTHS viscosity (in typical driving scenarios). Friction modifiers are another important factor. You've made a conclusion based on energy conserving and API or ILSAC certification. I don't agree with it as presented. What properties of Group IV/V oils do you propose makes them difficult or impossible to meet those criteria?
 
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1,084
Location
Florida, USA
 Originally Posted By: JAG
You've made a conclusion based on energy conserving and API or ILSAC certification. I don't agree with it as presented. What properties of Group IV/V oils do you propose makes them difficult or impossible to meet those criteria?
I did not mean to make that correlation. I did suggest that "maybe" there is some correlation between very high levels of PAO/Ester stock and not having an energy conserving formula. I don't have any proof of this other than observation that some oils very high levels of PAO/Ester are not energy conserving formulas. Mobil recently changed their formula for their EP line to obtain the energy conserving formula, and Amsoil 100% Synthetics do not have that designation (while their non-100% synthetics do). I admit that the correlation is based on a few circumstances that are possibly coincidental or irrelevant.
 

JAG

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5,320
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
Thanks for clarifying, Mark. My opinion is that these days companies that make oils with high levels of PAO/ester are marketed toward consumers who want the very best and those people often consider ILSAC certification to be a joke as it relates to quality and performance. One viewpoint is that ILSAC energy conserving tends to "design in" some degree of less than stellar shear stability. This has even become a concern among the very people helping to develop ILSAC motor oil specifications. The way around that is add more friction modifiers while improving shear stability, which adds cost to the oil, something oil company bean counters try to prevent as much as possible.
 
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