Mobil 1 SS using Grp III?

[buster]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=313674&page=4

Thanks to Primus for the link. In this thread, this debate was about M1 SS using a grp III still in it's formulation. Notice Mobil says synthetic bases stocks "Including PAO". Could this explain why the volatility is a bit higher then Amsoil/RL? NOAK for both of these oils is 5%. I thought this issue was laid to rest. This link though is a bit old.

 

[MolaKule]

Base stocks can include PAO, esters, and alkylated naphtalenes and or alkylated benzenes. Remember, EM makes all three full synthetic base stoks. While they also make GRIII, these are mostly in their blends.

Why use a GRPIII with a GRPIV when a PAO has better all around specs than a GRPIII?

Using a GRPIII with a GRPIV requires more esters for solubility of the add pack, which raises cost, so one would NOT be gaining anything by going with a PAO/GRIII stock.

Chemistry/cost wise, it doesn't make sense.

Consider too, the backlash if it were found that Mobil was using GRPIII and calling it synthetic, after the little tussle with Castrol. It would be
as hypocritical as Amsoil's move to use GRPIII in their XL-series.


On the other hand, I do appreciate Amsoil making a demarcation of their fluids. Example, Amsoil XL-series versus their full PAO series.

[ February 29, 2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[Quattro Pete]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=313674&page=4

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Oh no, not this thread again.

 

[buster]

Mobil told me that they absolutely don't use ANY grp III in Mobil 1. They seemed kind of pissed about it too when I asked them. Thanks Molekule for the response.

 

[Primus]

Think the issue is not here. Different claims of oil manufacturers and answers of many oil lab specialists could not fully convince me that hyrdocracked oil may be really equal to synthetic oil or even outperfom them in certain areas. But the tests made by a chemist from Melbourne finally did it:

http://www.exclusive-auto.net/articles/general/engineoiltest.html

Elf Excellium LDX 5W-40 and Agip Sint 2000 10W-40 that are mainly HC oils with some 20-30 % share of PAO showed considerably better performance then some pure synthetic oils. No a prejudice against HC oils now !

The main issue (and I am not confortable with it ) is that changing their oil compositions manufacturers try to pass over in silence what they have changed and whether the performance of these new oils are really better then that of old ones.

After reading Melbourne tests I decided to do my home work on 0W-40 leader and find out what ELF Excellium 0W-40 we are offered now. The results confirmed my apprehensions:

..................... 2002 ......... 2003
Density .......... 0.861 ....... 0.847
Viscosity 40C ...... 79 ........... 75
Viscosity 100C ..... 14 ........... 13
Flash Point ........ 240 .......... 232
Pour Point ........ - 51 ......... - 42

Could Melbourne tests be valid now ?

Mobil or Elf are not alone where properties like Flash & Pour Points, NOACK volatility became worse. Products from Motul, 76 Unocal, Comma (Mobil) and many other manufacturers experienced the same changes, but no one has openly said to end-users about these changes. No doubts their properties remained within API ot ACEA requirements, but it is not enough to know. Think it should be some law to make oil manufacturers publish all product data and promptly inform end-users about changes. Then we shall be able to make our choice with open eyes.

 

[Al]

quote:

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Originally posted by Quattro Pete:

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=313674&page=4

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Oh no, not this thread again.

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[Road Rage]

This question has been asked and answered on Mobil's website:
http://www.mobil1.com/index.jsp

Go to the Mobil1 stickie, glide over to FAQs, then go to "Mobil 1 vs. the Competition". There is a question about Red Line's polyolester bae stocks, and Mobil practically jumps down the guy's throat touting the glory of polyalphaolefins.

As a retired tribologist now making a living in the IT world, and with a car with a redline of 8200, I like to keep up with the lube world, and perhaps have something to offer. So I joined the fray!

Of particular note is that Mobil 1 "R" has some ester in it, so Mobil seems to be talking out of both sides of its mouth - maybe they should join the Dem primaries?!

Rage ON!

[ March 01, 2004, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Road Rage ]

 

[buster]

All of Mobil 1's oils have esters in them, the question is how much ester to PAO. It is assumed that M1/Amsoil are 85% PAO and 15% ester where as oils like Delvac 1 or Redline are significanlty higher ratios.

 

[Last_Z]

quote:

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Of particular note is that Mobil 1 "R" has some ester in it, so Mobil seems to be talking out of both sides of its mouth - maybe they should join the Dem primaries?!

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I've got your number!!!