Mobil 1 SS (SL), 0w-20, 7433 miles, 03 Honda Accord V6

[darryld13]

Driving style was consistent for both intervals, about 70% highway over 11 months. This interval was run on M1 0w20 vs. the previous Honda dino 5w20. Oil filters were changed both times, but I kept the air filter the same. My most recent lab results were from the same sample, same day, but sent to Terry's labs a couple of weeks later for comparison purposes. Because of reactivity to condensation while awaiting (or while in) transit to Terry and his labs, no FTIR or viscosity measurements were performed and some elemental elevation relative to the Blackstone analysis may have occured.

I ran Fuel Power during this last interval and will include Lube Control for 5K followed by a clean up run of Auto-Rx at the end of this next OCI. I also replaced the factory original Honda air filter with a Wix replacement. Terry was extremely prompt, helpful and patient with his consulting on both samples. He has been worth every penny - my Honda dealership didn't initially want to look into the fuel dilution issue that last year's sample revealed until I used some tips from Terry. Honda says they didn't do anything while examining, but this year I have no fuel detected, so I'm happy. I look forward to working with him again with next year's sample.

(Edit - Blackstone flagged Al, Fe, Cu, Si, viscosity, flash and fuel dilution with the previous run with Honda dino 5w-20 dino, only Cu with this M1 0w-20 run.)

code:

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Oil Mobil 1 Mobil 1 Honda

Visc 0W20 0W20 5W20

Filter Filtech Filtech Filtech

Adds FP FP None

Qts add None None None

Lab Dyson Bstone Bstone

Oil mi. 7,433 7,433 7,519

In use 11 mo 11 mo 11 mo Bstone

Car mi. 20,881 20,881 13,448 Univ.

Date 7/16/05 7/16/05 8/2/04 Avgs



Al 4 4 6 3

Cr 4 3 3 1

Fe 23 19 33 10

Cu 57 49 64 23

Pb 0 1 2 2

Sn 1 0 0 1

Mo 86 88 195 77

Ni 0 0 0 0

Mn 1 0 0 0

Ag 0 0 0 0

Ti 0 0 0 0

K 1 0 0 1

B 118 86 24 75

Si 10 11 21 9

Na 6 4 4 5

Ca 2282 2438 1847 2457

Mg 18 14 5 126

P 737 744 651 745

Zn 902 893 801 880

Ba 0 0 1 0

V 0 n/a n/a n/a

Sb 0 n/a n/a n/a



SUS Tgt n/a 53-59 53-62

SUS 210 n/a 54.9 52.2

Fl. Tgt n/a >355 >355

Fl. (F) n/a 385 350

Fuel T n/a
Fuel % Neg
AF Tgt n/a 0 0

AF % Neg 0 0

H2O Tgt n/a
H2O % Trace 0 0

Insol T n/a
Insol n/a 0.4 0.3

TBN 4.5 3.6 1.7

Fe Debr 21 (PQ) n/a n/a

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[ September 06, 2005, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: darryld13 ]

 

[buster]

Looks great. The M1 clearly has more life left in it, but the Honda Oil did very well all things considered. Not sure why the Cu is still high.

The M1 will keep your engine cleaner, I would think.

 

[darryld13]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Looks great. The M1 clearly has more life left in it, but the Honda Oil did very well all things considered. Not sure why the Cu is still high.

The M1 will keep your engine cleaner, I would think.

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Thanks - this was only my third oil change (6K on factory oil, 7.5 K on the Honda 5w-20, and the 7.5 on this run), so I expect this guy to spit out copper for a couple of more changes like the other Honda V6s seem to do.

 

[buster]

Your right, being only the 3rd change it looks good. Are you sticking with the M1?

 

[darryld13]

Yeah, I'm sticking with M1 for the next two at least. While the Honda dino held up pretty well, I have a couple of buy three, get three free Pep Boys coupons left. My current oil change interval patterns take me through the winter seasons, so I like the idea of M1 rendering viscosity and flow as non-issues when temps get into the teens.

 

[TooSlick]

The chrome and iron levels are still a bit elevated, which points towards fuel washing down the cylinder walls and removing the thin film of oil at the ring/cylinder interface. This engine runs pretty hot and I would expect excess fuel to evaporate once it got to the crankcase. So you won't necessarily expect to see it in the analysis as raw fuel > 1.0%.

These engine do generate high levels of copper due to their metallurgy, so the 50 ppm of Cu isn't an issue. I think that will dissipate over time....

What octane fuel are you running in this engine? That could be part of the problem ....

TS

 

[darryld13]

I run the recommended 87 octane. I do think that Ted's observation about heat and evaporation is valid, however for some reason, Blackstone flagged fuel with the first analysis, but not the second.

I'm hoping that the elevated chrome and iron continues to trend down and can be chalked up to a drawn out breaking in period. I'm only averaging 8K/year because I only drive the beast 2 times or so per week.

 

[darryld13]

quote:

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Originally posted by Quattro Pete:
Blackstone flagged 0.3% fuel dillution when their own "in the norm" is 2% ???

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Blackstone probably came to the same conclusion that Ted did - based on the chrome and iron wear levels detected, fuel wash may have been an issue. Honda's position was that because the engine only had 13.5K on it at that point, the wear levels were normal.

I've changed out the air filter to eliminate rich fuel as a culprit. Then again, Honda maintained that the engine was performing within normal operating parameters and the wear levels did come down using the same air filter for this last OCI.

 

[oilyriser]

Shouldn't Cr be lower?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Blackstone flagged 0.3% fuel dillution when their own "in the norm" is 2% ???

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by TooSlick:
The chrome and iron levels are still a bit elevated, which points towards fuel washing down the cylinder walls and removing the thin film of oil at the ring/cylinder interface.

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I believe TooSlick is correct here. High fuel enrichment levels until the engine is up to operating temperatures. The new air filter may help too. Make sure it's seated correctly, and check for any other leaks.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Daryl, I'm wondering if some of the differences between our 2 most recent UOA's has to do with the SL or SM formula used? Or does that matter at all?

Why do Hondas have these fuel issues anyway???

 

[moribundman]

I suppose it doesn't take much fuel to thin 0W-20 to the point of it becoming too thin.