Mobil 1 MXT motorcycle oil in a Honda CBR 954

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418
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Ohio
Well I just got a report back from Oil Analyzers regarding my recent sample of my 2003 Honda CBR 954. It looks like even though the Amsoil (last years motorcycle formula) protected better than the Mobil one. Both samples used amsoils oil filter. Both have street miles but last years amsoil sample had 3 track days on it and the mobil one had 2 so far. Heres the numbers Element Amsoil (2.5K miles) Mobil One 1.5K Iron 35 28 Lead 4 18 Copper 8 12 Aluminum 49 39 Silicone 12 11 Boron 25 149 Sodium 5 9 Mg 3200 2500 Zinc 1300 1700 Phos 1200 1300 Moly 12 65 TBN 9.7 6 [email protected] 10.03 10.47 So to me it looks like the Amsoil was actually a better oil. Anyone differ, comments?
 

2003TRD

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this is 10w40 oil and why was this moved, the bulk of people on this board dont follow the motorcycle section so this post is basically useless
 
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1,347
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wytheville, va
quote:
Originally posted by 2003TRD: this is 10w40 oil and why was this moved, the bulk of people on this board dont follow the motorcycle section so this post is basically useless
I wondered the same thing about my recent motorcycle UOA's... But this section is pretty new, and I do think folks will begin to get used to the motorcycle UOA's all being here. [Smile] Thanks for sharing your data with us. How many miles on the bike? Dan
 
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2,158
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Cedar Park, TX
you have a lot of iron in your sample. lead too. are you using some type of "leaded" fuel treatment? try the Mobil 1 T&SUV 15w50 for the rest of the summer.
 
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1,347
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wytheville, va
It looks like the engine may still be breaking in... Or... if there is more than 5000 miles on this engine, I would have to surmise (us un-educamated dunderheads here can only surmise) [Wink] [Big Grin] that neither of these oils is protecting the engine all that well. I'm somewhat inclined to go along with sunruh's idea about the 50 weight. Both of your oils have sheared to "P"-water... very light 30's from the numbers you provide. This engine is definitely thrasing the oils. Here's my theory: [Big Grin] From a serious perusing of the UOA's here and elsewhere over the last year it has become obvious to me that synthetics do not reduce wear--and in many cases seem to show accelerated wear. This seems to be the case with various syns versus various dino oils in various engines read by various labs--so it isn't an isolated or individualized issue. There's a "murmur" beginning to be heard that has this idea that some synthetic bases actually have a "blocking effect" on the ZDDP, keeping it from adhering to the metals like it's supposed to do. There is an article posted here at BITOG somewhere regarding this issue. Some Canadian university did the study. So anyway, if the above has any validitiy to it, that would mean that elements of the base package in the synthetic oil are "substituting" for the ZDDP anti-wear package. This might explain how these purportedly "shear resistant" oils shear so much. I'm of the opinion that a petroleum 15W40 HDEO such as Shell Rotella, Mobil Delvac, or Chevron Delo would turn you in a better UOA than these syns have done. These HDEO's have a robust additive package, and the base oils won't crowd out the ZDDP on certain surfaces. Aluminum is supposedly very susceptible to this effect, and I note that your AL numbers seem pretty high. (That said, I don't know the Universal Averages). Admittedly, the above is only a theory--but it's backed up by the evidence in the UOA's here and elsewhere, I would argue. One thing I learned a long time ago about theorizing: The model must fit reality. The reality is that your wear numbers could be better. The reality is that neither of these oils has done much to mitigate the wear, and both have sheared considerably for some reason. Try some Shell Rotella 15W40. It's got no moly at all, so no clutch issues. It's got lots of ZDDP, and certainly wouldn't shear any worse than the syns here have. I'll bet that it'll protect better and shear less... [Wink] Dan
 
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wytheville, va
I think it's a combination of a couple issues, primarily the dual-duty of the engine oil and transmission lube. The gnashing of the tranny gears has got to pound the oil. In engines which don't share the engine oil with the transmissioin, we note that most (perhaps all?) of these are air cooled, which means the oil probably runs hotter most of the time, makeing it break down more easily. No? Shearing in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing I wouldn't think. What's important is that the oil doesn't leave a mess in the engine, and that it doesn't shear so much that it can no longer protect. Dan
 
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Vermont
quote:
Originally posted by sunruh: try the Mobil 1 T&SUV 15w50 for the rest of the summer.
Sunruh, do you mean 5W-40 or 15W-50? I'm guessing you really mean the 15W-50, just today I got back a UOA on Mobil 1 T&SUV 5W-40 and it sheared to a 30wt in 500 miles. Yuck.
 
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2,158
Location
Cedar Park, TX
nicrfe, yep and yep. the second yep is that i'm not surprised the 5w40 sheared to pelican wizz weight in 500 miles. you have an 8:1 ratio of winter blend there. those long chains get chewed to pieces in short order and then your nice thick oil is now colored water. i was offered some free mobil 1 delvac 5w40 to test and i TURNED IT DOWN. no way, no how will i run something with that ratio. 3:1 tops and lower if i can. 2003trd, my tests showed that Shell Rotella T dino 15w40 held its viscosity very well in my gearbox. however, it had a low flashpoint and a low starting viscosity, however that may work ok for you in cooler ohio.
 
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va beach
i'd like to see if the pennzoil long life 15-40 would be a good choice here? i know the old version was loaded w/ moly, but i think the newer version might be closer to, if not rebaged rotella? besides, i think moly isn't the clutch killer as once thought? local k-mart has it in stock, seems to have left walmart shelves. penz
 

2003TRD

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This bike has 11K + miles on it and it gets pretty thrashed upon at the race tracks. I typically do 200 miles per track day with alot of those miles at 10-12K RPMs. I didnt change this oil out yet, I drained a qt of it with my sample and replaced it with Mobil ones 20w50 to extend my drain until the next track day. Before the next track day I am going to change it out completely, do 2 qts of 10w40 and 2 qts of 20w50. I figure I will do another three or four track days on that oil and then sample it (for a total of 2K miles). I thought synthetics where supposed to be more shear stable?? So do I switch to the rotella or do as planned
 
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2,158
Location
Cedar Park, TX
ivm, the old (2001) amsoil mc was HORRIBLE in my motor. i ran the 20w50 and had blackstone analyize it. on 4/26/01 it tested at a flashpoint of 365 and only 68.4 sus vi after a mere 60 miles. the test on 7/30/01 showed 390F and 76.0 sus vi after 120 miles. so i can only HOPE that the new version is better, but not willing to pay for it to try and find out.
 

2003TRD

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Ohio
doesnt it look like the amsoil protected this engine just a tad better than mobil one (if you correct the items per 1K miles) ? Also I agree that these oils did shear down ALOT, but even the amsoil sheared more, it looks like it had better wear numbers mile per mile.
 

2003TRD

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Ohio
Oh forgot, I do not use any fuel additives, I run 89octane (recommended) and I run 93 or 94 on track days for some added protection against detonation with the high temps
 
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wytheville, va
Deciding on which oil is better in the application--the Mobil 1 or the Amsoil puts you into a "lesser of two evils" situation. I think a 15W40 dino HDEO (like Rotella) would be worth a try. At the very worst, it'll do no better--a 2K mile run on Rotella won't hurt your engine by any means. And look at it this way: If the Rotella works, you can get a gallon of it for what you're now paying for a quart of syn. That'll go a long way towared paying for oil analysis in the future, and also toward recouping some of the money you've already spent... [Wink] Dan
 
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Northern CA
quote:
Originally posted by fuel tanker man: I think a 15W40 dino HDEO (like Rotella) would be worth a try. At the very worst, it'll do no better--a 2K mile run on Rotella won't hurt your engine by any means. And look at it this way: If the Rotella works, you can get a gallon of it for what you're now paying for a quart of syn. That'll go a long way towared paying for oil analysis in the future, and also toward recouping some of the money you've already spent... [Wink] Dan
I agree on using a good HDEO 15W-40. Just pick one that's rated Allison C4 (most are). That's the wet clutch rating.
 

2003TRD

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418
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Ohio
great thanks guys. I think I will try it next change instead of the syn. I was going to use the synthetic because I already have a couple qts but maybe I will hold off until some cooler weather and not trackdays.
 
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2,050
Location
Jupiter, Fl
What effect does RPM have on oil life, etc. I have a CBR1000RR, a GSX-R750 and a CBR600RR. compared to a car these bikes destroy oil in no time. I haven't done oil analysis in a few years, but in the past I learned that on the bikes using either M1 or Golden Spectro blend 1,000 miles was too much. The same oils in my truck that tows the bikes will last 10K easily. At a highway cruise, the 600 will run for hours at over 8,000 RPM. many miles over 13,000RPM. At top speed you will be able to pull and hold about 15,000 rpm in top gear for as long as you hold it open. On the track you will hit redline many times per lap every lap. What does that do to the oil - is the oil torn up because the bikes are making close to 200hp/liter with tiny bores, thin rings and tiny bearing surfaces and typically lots of blowby at full power? On the new bikes temperatures are well regulated, they typically have either air to oil coolers, or water/oil heat exchangers. Also have enough radiator capacity to keep water temps below 100c under most conditions. Is it the transmission gears meshing under full load at high speed? Is it because when they are ridden at low speeds the combustion isn't very good.
 
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