Mobil 1 lasting only 3000 miles?

[tai]

Trying to be a good earth citizen, I suggested to my Miata-owning peers that 3K-mile oil changes are unnecessary with today's oil, especially synthetic oil. But several people replied that their Mobil 1 10w30 oil needs replacing after only 3K miles because that's when the valve ticking begins again. Not sure that valve ticking means the oil has gone bad, but is it likely or possible that Mobil 1 10w30 would shear down that noticeably in just 3K miles, even with hard driving? Note that the Miata's redline is 7K RPM.

From what I have read here, Mobil 1 10w30 is very shear stable and that 10K change intervals is OK for most people.

[ December 05, 2002, 01:19 AM: Message edited by: tai ]

 

[OneQuartLow]

tai, dragboat made this post some time back over in the used oil analysis forum:

quote:

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To all,We have had a Miata in the family "wifes weekend car" for years.It now belongs to my Son and like other Miatas at 3k or so the lifters started rattling at start up with the Castrol that the previous owner used since new and I continued using for a while. This is contributed to the build up in the tiny hydraulic lifter metering holes and is a common topic with Miata owners on Miata.net. Pennzoil with the new base stock stopped this altogether for us even up to 4k because for a short period I drove the car and racked some miles up in a 6 month period. I would assume Chevron,Motorcraft/Conoco would be much the same in this.

Anyway would you be interested in seeing a test of the Miatas oil, Pennzoil 10/40 with 4k of mostly town for long periods with the Synergen oil additive added at the rated of 2 oz per quart? The engine holds 4 quarts with filter,Synergen says 2-4oz per quart should be added so I went with 2oz for a 8oz total. If that would be of interest to you I will gladly contact Terry for a kit asap because it is nearing drain time.

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Sounds like a common problem.

David

 

[mkosem]

ok, if the miata has the same 2.0L mazda 4 cylinder engine I'm thinking of(same as 626) this ticking is related to oil viscosity. In cold weather, a 10w30 is more then sufficient for keeping those valves quiet. But in the summer, switching to a 10w40 gets rid of the ticking noise also. I'm not saying that that ticking noise it damaging anything(so the dealer says), it's more of a control freak thing.

--Matt

 

[porterdog]

quote:

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Originally posted by mkosem:
ok, if the miata has the same 2.0L mazda 4 cylinder engine I'm thinking of(same as 626) this ticking is related to oil viscosity. --Matt

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The Miata from 94- on is fitted with a 1.8l motor. I've owned my '94 since 10/00 and have read approximately 6.02E23 posts on this topic, including many related to using the noise of the lifters to indicate an oil change is needed.

One interesting aspect of the issue (which is _very_ common) is that there's no one-size-fits-all solution. Some people have an issue at startup, and often a thinner oil will help them. Others have problems hot, after a track or autocross session. Thicker oil seems to work for them. I think if you're really concerned about it you should just try several different oil flavors and see if you can find something that works, and I've often wondered if the higher-end engine cleaners discussed in this forum (Auto-RX/Neutra 131) would have an impact.

I have some minor tick at startup, generally about 30 seconds or less, and I run M1 for 5k miles. Winters 10w30 and summer half 10w30 half 15w50. I never have a hot tick issue, even after 30 minutes of turbocharged road course bliss...

Keep after it, you'll find something that works for you.

Luck,
Robert

 

[dragboat]

tai,OneQuartLow ,
Thse 1.6 and 1.8 motors are notorious for the ticking whch is somewhat a mystery. It seems Redline is correct to an extent when they told me it was from using a dino oil and the orifice clogging thing but it also seems there comes a point when miles are accumulated the lifters just flat bleed off when parked overnight.
I never ran the analysis because I did not really care what the Pennzoil was doing or not doing in terms of protection because at the time I switched the youngsters car to Schaeffers 10/30 blend and guess what,,it ticked from day one with that oil at cold start,,trust me this is not a oil filter related issue,it either the oils or the lifters or a combination.The lifters being more suspect and there is always the possibilty the oil pump is worn but doubtfull at 65k but I added the Synergyn and it went away period. That additive will raise the VI some but not alot at 2 ounces per quart. It seems to be the equivalent of a 40wt just guessing.
I am certain I will never use the M1 in the car but I will make adjustments in the future to correct this problem with the Miata we have in the family.Thought I had it licked. Most likely the next oil it will see is the Phillips Trop Artic 15/40 Race PAO blend.Possibly the Trop Artic Turbo 10/30 posted in the Virgin analysis section although if VI related it will need a additive and thats what I like bout that oil,,it seems prime for the # 132 Schaeffers Moly additive but not real willing to use it in winter months
But waste not want not,the cold start noise is gone for now and will finish this interval

 

[MolaKule]

Tai,

As Dragboat suggested, try the Schaeffer's #132 at a treat rate of 250 mL/5 quarts of Mobil 1; doesn't matter - summer or winter.

It quieted down the Solid Lifter system on my Nissan 2.4L.

 

[dragboat]

I can tell you this,the 132 seems to eliminate any cylinder wall wear,,the 3100 mile analysis of a 5/30 dino with the 132 only showed all the cold starts in terms of wear,,I know the car is started stop n go sometimes 8,9,10 times daily 7 days a week.My Daughter truely punishes that car with her driving style

Saturn owners with or without clean motors might really benefit from this 132 product by reducing oil burning

 

[tai]

Thanks for all the help. I don't see the problem in my Miata, thankfully. So, if I understood all the above, it's not exactly clear what causes it, and it has different fixes for different cars, right? Using a thinner oil helps in one Miata, while a thicker oil does the job in another. So it's not an issue with M1, per se. OK, I got it. Clear as mud.

 

[dragboat]

I believe the only other use of those motors were the Escort GT for just a year or so,but in 2000 they went to solid lifters. 2001 got variable valve timing,,works well when working

It's just annoying for the most part.Annoying in winter with lite oil. They sure run along time making this nose on start up,,those that don't now eventually will I beleive.
they really seem to like a 10/40 wt oil when warm ambient,,my Son's does,man I miss it

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat:
I believe the only other use of those motors were the Escort GT for just a year or so,

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Actually, the Escort GT got this engine from 91 to 96. I had a 95 Escort GT actually.

I ran nothing but Mobil 1 5w30 and never had any valvetrain noise, even at the end of my 5k intervals.

 

[mkosem]

my dad runs 10k intervals of mobil1 in the mazda most of the time. I think the ford probe had the same engine in 94 also.

--Matt

 

[Patman]

Nope, the Ford Probe of 94-97 has only two engine choices, the 2.0L four or the 2.5L V6. My mother has a 94 Probe GT actually. Over 130k on it now.

 

[mkosem]

hmm, the 626 in 94 shared the engine and transmission with the probe. My assumption is that since the mercury capri shared everything with the miata the engine may be similar to the one used in the 626/probe just with a shortened stroke.

--Matt

 

[mkosem]

I wonder if that 1.6L and the 1.8L miata engines are the same block as the 2.0L in the 626. This ticking lifter problems is present on tons of 2.0L 626's. Are those miata engines higher compression? Or do they run forced induction? Switching a heavier oil in watm weather seemed to quiet down my dad's 626.

--Matt

 

[GimmeTorq]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat:
I believe the only other use of those motors were the Escort GT for just a year or so,

---

Actually, the Escort GT got this engine from 91 to 96. I had a 95 Escort GT actually.

I ran nothing but Mobil 1 5w30 and never had any valvetrain noise, even at the end of my 5k intervals.

---

Former owner of a '93 Escort GT here. Only used Castrol GTX 5w-30 since first oil change. At around 60k, it developed a random loud ticking sound at start-up that used to go away after the engine warmed up. I don't know if this is the same noise, but in my case, it appeared to be caused by carbon buildup in the valves. Using fuel system cleaner regularly helped removing the noise. I sold the car at 90,000+ miles and still running strong. Never had any problems with that engine...

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Didn't want to start a new thread, there is some guy posting on the edmunds board who claims to have a Corvette (new , I think) and he's running Mobil 1 for 15k miles w/o an analysis. Is he insane or just distorted?

 

[mkosem]

hmm, it depends on how he drives. 15k is doable, but seeing as that it's a corvette I'm guessing he doesn't drive it casually all the time

--Matt

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

I can't figure out spending large on the car, and extending drains that long to save relative pennies?

 

[Patman]

I read the Edmunds board and I know who you are referring to. He goes by ruking1, but I don't think he comes in here (not sure why, he seems to like to talk about oil a lot)

I question the fact that he doesn't do oil analysis on this car. Considering he has a new Z06 Vette, he should be aware that these engines put a lot of copper into the oil at first. So going right to a 15k interval is crazy until the engine settles in. And even then, he might find he needs to scale it back to 10k.

He is basing his choice on past experience with other vehicles, mainly Toyota Land Cruisers, where he has gotten a combined total of 600k on them using this 15k oil change schedule on M1. One of the vehicles alone went 250k. But that same rule can't be applied to all vehicles. Just because he had success in one type of vehicle with 15k intervals doesn't mean he will have the same results with others. If he tried a 15k interval in a new Toyota V6 he'd be in big trouble.

By the way, he doesn't do the extended intervals to save money. Much like me, he does it so he doesn't have to change the oil as often. I change oil in 4 cars for my family and I don't feel like doing it every 3k, I'd be doing close to 20 oil changes per year! The older I get (I turned 33 today!) the less I enjoy getting dirty and getting cuts and scrapes (which I always seem to get with every single oil change I do)

[ December 08, 2002, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

He apparently has a mechanic visually inspect the engine. Is this enough?