Mobil 1 - Is a higher end Synthetic

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Originally Posted By: SL8R
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
That's a serious weakness. I don't put people down.


Ignoring your obvious contradiction of yourself, I think it's only fair to expect some criticism of a topic that in your very first post gleefuly acknowledge is likely to start a war.

At the end of the day, a useful exercise for you to take up would be to make a list of all of the members of the forum that you feel are knowledgeable of the topic at hand (not those that have read a few threads and posted a thousand opinions devoid of fact) and then go back through the pages and pages that this thread will eventually take up and see what is their general consensus on your chosen topic. I would guess it will be very telling.

Again, best of luck.

J


I don't mind the criticism. Can you answer a question?

What exactly is wrong with comparing Group III synthetic bases to synthetics made with Group III, IV and or V base stocks?

Please fully explain it to me.
 
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Originally Posted By: SL8R

make a list of all of the members of the forum that you feel are knowledgeable of the topic at hand (not those that have read a few threads and posted a thousand opinions devoid of fact) and then go back through the pages and pages that this thread will eventually take up and see what is their general consensus on your chosen topic.


May I ask if you consider yourself one of the knowledgeable people you speak of?

You seem to be most impressed by fact. I am too. Show me the flaw in what I presume to be fact. I will gladly admit where I am wrong. Are you capable of doing the same?

Isn't it a fact that Group IV synthetics have more impressive properties than Group III? Superior pour and flash points for instance.

What about GC. Someone mentioned it achieves its 0W-30 rating without normal viscosity improvers. Would that be possible with a group III oil?

Do you know of any long life oils that are based purely on Group III synthetics? I do not know of any. Do you, or anyone else for that matter, believe that the favorable 20,000 mile+ UOA's Amsoil achieves, would be possible without PAO in the mix?
 
Art. What are you after here?

There's no magic oil. At least not for sale anywhere I've seen.

If you're getting "something extra" out of M1 ..you're paying for it. Getting your money's worth out of it is up to you.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Art. What are you after here?

There's no magic oil. At least not for sale anywhere I've seen.

If you're getting "something extra" out of M1 ..you're paying for it. Getting your money's worth out of it is up to you.


Gary,

Does Amsoil use Group IV and V synthetics in its top formulations?

If so, do you think that if the same product were reformulated with Group III base stock that it could still perform as well?
 
Perhaps. Amsoil doesn't sell a PAO base stock oil that's not targeted at extended drains. That's the market we're almost exclusively centered in.

Let me rephrase it to bring me back to what I think you're missing.

Under limited duration of use, unless there was some ultra grueling severity, I don't think you would see much difference between any oil of comparable spec.

You may be getting something extra ..but what good does it do you if you never get close to pushing the envelope (any envelope)??

Mr./Ms. Commonplace commuter of no distinctive automobile doing no distinctive severity of service under no distinctive duration of service ..will probably just spend more money for features that they'll never use.

Now if I can talk them into 6months instead of 3k/3m ..then I can bring them value. Otherwise ..

...we're back to motor oils as mood enhancers. They make you feel better. I'm okay with that
21.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Perhaps. Amsoil doesn't sell a PAO base stock oil that's not targeted at extended drains. That's the market we're almost exclusively centered in.


So are we to conclude that PAO is instrumental in producing an extended drain oil? At least in Amsoil's eyes?
 
In the vacuum of the offering ..YES.

Keep in mind that M1 isn't marketed as an extended drain oil "across the board".
 
What is the point somepeople feel better buying brand name cloths(even when they are now chinese made) based on past performance in relation to the competition.
THe issue is that Mobile Uno has not set itself apart in recent history and that reputation boat is taking on water.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
In the vacuum of the offering ..YES.

Keep in mind that M1 isn't marketed as an extended drain oil "across the board".



Gary,

I liked your simple 3 word answer better. It was something like

"Yes. Of course." No vacuum required.

I understand Mobil 1 is not extended drain throughout the line.

Were you the one who told me that GC does not need Viscosity Improvers to achieve 0W-30?
 
Well, I rethought my response. When you're asked a simple question, sometimes the simple answer requires qualification. Otherwise, it's often turned into a license to imply other things.

"Might" often evolves to "could" ..which morphs to "should" ..which morphs to "will" which morphs to "MUST".

No. I didn't state that about GC. Although I believe that it has an unconventional element that takes the place of traditional viscosity index improvers.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

Under limited duration of use, unless there was some ultra grueling severity, I don't think you would see much difference between any oil of comparable spec.

You may be getting something extra ..but what good does it do you if you never get close to pushing the envelope (any envelope)??


I do not push the envelope of any of my street cars but I do run the best group IV and V oil because sh!t happen and that is something that I can not predict. I did run my VW Golf TDI with little or no oil pressure for two hours on a blend of RP and Redline with no engine damage. I had to be at a payment meeting and the cost of the engine was minor compare to the payment that I was getting. The lost of oil pressure was due to a slow leak in the bypass system.
 
Well, I'd sure say that you pushed the envelope in that instance.

I think we could all come up with a "Well, suppose I'm climbing up an 8% grade, while I'm overheating ..and I'm loaded to the gills and I didn't want to stop and wait ..and the crest/summit is only 5 miles away" of "what if's".

You could have just as easily seized on the spot.
 
This is such a tough question and trying to limit the scope of the discussion actually makes it harder it seems.
So is the basic question Is Mobil 1 a superior product because it "should/does" have more PAO than other Main stream "synthetic: oils?
I don't think it does.
Does PAO cost more than GRP III base stock? I would guess yes.
Probably the reason Mobil 1 costs a bit more.
Can you run the oil for a longer OCI with more PAO? I think the answer is yes.
Does that now make it a superior oil? I'll say yes

Does the oil offer better wear protection because it contains more PAO? I don't think it does. Pennzoil and Valvoline synthetics have shown as good as or better wear protection in many UOA posted here.
So is Mobil 1 a superior product in this respect? I'll say NO.

I asked a similar question a while back without stating brand names.
Is an oil "better" just because it has some/more/any PAO vs a grp III competing oil? I came to the conclusion NO.
It's the total formula that makes it a better product not just the PAO.
So NO I don't think Mobil 1 is a superior product just because we think it has more PAO in it than brand X

I don't think you can state "superior" oil without taking in to account intended use either.
In a longer OCI Mobil 1 may be the winner but in my application (under 10K)PP does as good or better for wear numbers.
So for me Mobil 1 is not superior.


I think Mobil 1 is a very very very good oil and would use it without any hesitation.
If I thought Mobil one was "superior" in all ways I'd pay the extra $2 and use it.
 
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

Under limited duration of use, unless there was some ultra grueling severity, I don't think you would see much difference between any oil of comparable spec.

You may be getting something extra ..but what good does it do you if you never get close to pushing the envelope (any envelope)??


I do not push the envelope of any of my street cars but I do run the best group IV and V oil because sh!t happen and that is something that I can not predict. I did run my VW Golf TDI with little or no oil pressure for two hours on a blend of RP and Redline with no engine damage. I had to be at a payment meeting and the cost of the engine was minor compare to the payment that I was getting. The lost of oil pressure was due to a slow leak in the bypass system.


You had a leak big enough to lower or eliminate the oil pressure for TWO HOURS and still had oil left in the sump?

How many *gallons* does a TDI hold? I know its a diesel and they hold more but 2 hour leak?

Any one know of the gallons per MINUTE that a TDI flows?

Interesting....
 
There was little or no oil left when I top it off. It took over 5 quarts to come up to the full mark. It was about two hour from when the warning light came on and when I stopped. I got 18k miles since and should have a UOA come this August. Again, I use the best oil that I can afford because [censored] happens and I don't want to be caught off guard.
 
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

I think we could all come up with a "Well, suppose I'm climbing up an 8% grade, while I'm overheating ..and I'm loaded to the gills and I didn't want to stop and wait ..and the crest/summit is only 5 miles away" of "what if's".

You could have just as easily seized on the spot.


There is a big different between "what if" and "[censored] happens". I can avoid the what if but not the other. Whether or not my engine will easily seized on the spot is yet to be proven.

Edit:

Bypassing the censor can get you banned. This is your warning.
 
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Well, I'd sure say that you pushed the envelope in that instance.

I think we could all come up with a "Well, suppose I'm climbing up an 8% grade, while I'm overheating ..and I'm loaded to the gills and I didn't want to stop and wait ..and the crest/summit is only 5 miles away" of "what if's".

You could have just as easily seized on the spot.
The what ifs won't be I am running syn oil and it will save me it will be the head gasket is blown or the valve seats will fall out etc.
 
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