Mobil 1 EP HM 0W20 VOA

Here's what is stated in the API SP specifications. It states that phosphorus must be between 0.06-0.08% (600-800 ppm). It then gives footnotes, one stating it doesn't apply to non-ILSAC grades (ie: 10W-40, 20W-50), and the other referring to ASTM D3244 as the specification being non-critical.

API SP Phosphorus limits with footnotes highlighted.jpeg


Here's an excerpt from ASTM D3244, the conformance of critical vs non-critical specification.

ASTM D3244 critical vs non-critical specification.jpeg

ASTM D3244 critical vs non-critical specification 2.jpeg


What I take this to mean is that phosphorus can be below the 0.06% (600 ppm) minimum so long as the oil still passes the anti-wear tests.
 
There are many ironies in the history of bitog…. When first joined the website likely around 2004 or so because did oil analysis on 2003 and 04 accords then. Diesel oil was like super high in calcium and zzdp…. Now most diesel oils-especially auto diesels have severely lowered metallic additives… before the whole lpsi deal with direct injection cars-regular gasoline motor oil actually seemed to have much higher additive rates than the newest diesel oils… and high mileage oil-“forget about it” they often weren’t api certified so they loaded up on metallic additives at a much higher rate…. Now I guess because of direct injection-all metallic additives are super low-and for whatever reason-high mileage oils have even lowered then more-even though they still lack many certifications included in the “regular” synthetic oils… I think the only “old school” type additive packs are Redline-don’t think they have even changed at all-maybe use a bit more boron now… the “new” High Performance Lubricants-which seems like an excellent small company-and maybe older spec European oils 229.5 rated like Mobil 1 0w40 -which has the highest TBN of any oil… It’s amazing though and maybe just the nature of things that engineering deficits dictate an entire oil industry…
I would always recommend VW oils because they always seemed to have to make excellent oils to compensate for idiosyncratic engineering to make sure engines would run despite flaws in the design.
Curious about other people’s perspectives on this-and mentioned this in another post under this topic-I really wish Blackstone would stop saying strong TBN when it’s like 4-I know exaggerating-to start with
 
There are many ironies in the history of bitog…. When first joined the website likely around 2004 or so because did oil analysis on 2003 and 04 accords then. Diesel oil was like super high in calcium and zzdp…. Now most diesel oils-especially auto diesels have severely lowered metallic additives… before the whole lpsi deal with direct injection cars-regular gasoline motor oil actually seemed to have much higher additive rates than the newest diesel oils… and high mileage oil-“forget about it” they often weren’t api certified so they loaded up on metallic additives at a much higher rate….
You have a point there.

edline-don’t think they have even changed at all-maybe use a bit more boron now…
You might want to check this out: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...0-and-0w-30-api-sp-elemental-analysis.362576/

Curious about other people’s perspectives on this-and mentioned this in another post under this topic-I really wish Blackstone would stop saying strong TBN when it’s like 4-I know exaggerating-to start with
Yeah, there would be plenty to say. But let's keep it short: LSPI has been blown out of proportion, using less additives and cheaper ingredients in motor oils means higher profits, oh and let's not forget planned obsolescence. One last thing: there is no magic unicorn juice that can replace ZDDP in motor oil. There just isn't. What you can't see on a VOA... isn't there.
 
Can rst
You have a point there.


You might want to check this out: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...0-and-0w-30-api-sp-elemental-analysis.362576/


Yeah, there would be plenty to say. But let's keep it short: LSPI has been blown out of proportion, using less additives and cheaper ingredients in motor oils means higher profits, oh and let's not forget planned obsolescence. One last thing: there is no magic unicorn juice that can replace ZDDP in motor oil. There just isn't. What you can't see on a VOA... isn't there.
Thank you so much for sharing that post on Redline oils… I usually buy them from this website elite racing fab-and I get the 0w20 for my car-which is cheaper on their website compared with the 5w20 and am wondering if the new formula may be out on certain viscosities now as the listing price of the 5w20 is significantly higher than the 0w20 like 18 compared to 15-they discount most of the products but some viscosities have the newer much more expensive listing price and others have the older pricing even though the 0-weight redline oils have always been about 50 cents more than the 5w and 10w weight oils. Although rereading the redline post-I just saw the 0w20 and 0w30 weights have the newer designation-maybe this is proving your point Rod Knock that the older formulations may have cost more because of extra additives.., now one thing will mention from their catalog which is different that website in terms of specifications-all the newer catalog specifications seem improved from the standpoint of noack numbers especially.
 
Dave said they're still using basically the same basestock blend with just a different additive package.
 
I think Mobil 1 knows a little more about what's in this oil than the armchair chemists around here. I've had nothing but great UOA's from this oil.
All a UOA can tell you for certain is if the oil’s still serviceable at the sample time, not how well it protected your engine from wear. Dirt or coolant ingress as well, but that’s it.

And you can’t tell how well an oil will protect an engine based on a VOA; that’s what an oil’s specifications & certifications are for. 👍🏻
 
Dave said they're still using basically the same basestock blend with just a different additive package.
My brain despite being on bitog for more than 15 years has true difficulty conceptualizing oil chemistry, additives, base stocks, and so on… while a little knowledge can be dangerous-I would wonder/think that if you decrease metallic additives-you would compensate with base stock adjustments…
 
All a UOA can tell you for certain is if the oil’s still serviceable at the sample time, not how well it protected your engine from wear. Dirt or coolant ingress as well, but that’s it.

And you can’t tell how well an oil will protect an engine based on a VOA; that’s what an oil’s specifications & certifications are for. 👍🏻
Well, I guess nobody here can tell much of anything unless their engine wears out prematurely. Maybe you can elighten me to another way? In the meantime, I'll confidently run this oil.
 
Well, I guess nobody here can tell much of anything unless their engine wears out prematurely. Maybe you can elighten me to another way? In the meantime, I'll confidently run this oil.
Read the last sentence of my post… it’s been discussed numerous times by others smarter than I than a UOA is not the correct tool to measure wear. A manufacturer’s requirement and the oil’s specs/certs tell you if they will work together, and data has shown there is statistically no difference in engine wear by oils that meet the same spec. That’s the whole purpose of specs!

I never said anything negative about the oil in question; Mobil makes good oils, and as said, even if it just barely met the specs you’d still get essentially identical results as any other. And do read up on UOAs and their proper function- all it tells you about is the oil’s condition in that engine & usage pattern; it’s NOT a Ouija board that can tell you how well the oil is protecting the engine or how much wear is occurring.
 
OP's VOA is 15 months old.
M1 now has Triple Action Formula for Performance Protection Cleanliness.
The EP flavor includes Plus Power.

Their chart below shows Phosphorus ppm in spec with API now.

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