Does anyone know aproximately how much ZDDP is being used in M1 and Amsoil ASL/ATM? If you look at the VOA of 10w-30 ATM, it's only 900/800, which doesn't make sense. Then there are VOA's with Mobil having anywhere from over 1000ppm Zinc to as low as 900ppm. It seems there are huge descrpencies among UOA's and VOA's. It is my understanding that All Amsoil's oil use well over 1000ppm of both Zinc and P and Mobil being API, is ony using 750P and 900ppm of Zinc.
Mobil 1/ Amsoil ZDDP Levels
- Thread starter buster
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I can't help but notice that in the UOAs most of the additive levels are comming back un-depleted.
Can I assume correctly that this would be due to improvements in base oil and/or FMs?
Can I assume correctly that this would be due to improvements in base oil and/or FMs?
MolaKule
Staff member
My take is that the additives now being used are simply more stable and have more reserve.
Analysis for P is not very accurate. +/- 100 ppm should considered excellent accuracy.
MolaKule
Staff member
Both Amsoil and Mobil recently made "tweaks" to their formulations, hence some differences will show up between past and recent VOA's and UOA's. Generally, you will see a trend in which the ZDDP with high phosphates is being replaced by ZDDP's with lower phosphates and lower zincs.
The recent technology surrounding the newer calcium carbonates and borate asters has allowed formulations to reduce the ZDDP, with the calcium's and the borate's being used as secondary Anti-Wear additives to replace the functionality once provided solely by high ZDDP formulations.
[ November 12, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
The recent technology surrounding the newer calcium carbonates and borate asters has allowed formulations to reduce the ZDDP, with the calcium's and the borate's being used as secondary Anti-Wear additives to replace the functionality once provided solely by high ZDDP formulations.
[ November 12, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Buster,
The 5w-30/10w-30 and Series 3000, 5w-30 use about 1100 ppm of P and 1300 ppm of Zn ...The Series 2000, 0w-30 uses about 1200 ppm of P and 1550 ppm of Zn (data from 3/7/03).
All these formulations except for the Series 3000 also use a small amount of boron (40-75 ppm) as a friction modifier.
Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
The 5w-30/10w-30 and Series 3000, 5w-30 use about 1100 ppm of P and 1300 ppm of Zn ...The Series 2000, 0w-30 uses about 1200 ppm of P and 1550 ppm of Zn (data from 3/7/03).
All these formulations except for the Series 3000 also use a small amount of boron (40-75 ppm) as a friction modifier.
Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
Sounds like S3k and the ASL/ATM line use about the same as Delvac 1 and M1 15w-50. I didn't realize S2k used that much. Make sense though being a more performance oriented oil. I hope the new Mobil 1 R has that much. They state that it will have boosted levels of Anti-wear additives. Since this oil has been talked about, I'm less likely to use the regular M1 line now. Mobil themselves is clearly admitting that there regular oils are just not up to par with what they should be for high HP cars. This is why the the new R is now comming out..?? This oil should have been out a long time ago. I've been assuming that maybe the current Mobil 1 SS was using the new type of ZDDP that MK mentioned or higher levels of Boron and Calcium to offset the lower P and Zinc levels. I guess this could still hold true though.
[ November 30, 2003, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
[ November 30, 2003, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
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