This is my first post to this site, altough I have enjoyed it for several months, so be easy on me
I own a 06 Honda accord 4cyl. Honda recommends 5-20w so I have chosen Mobil 1 5-20 as my oil. I drive alot, about 150 miles per day. I change the oil & filter every 6-8 weeks or 5000 miles. I know the oil will last longer but I have done the 3000 oil change for 15 years and habits are hard to break.
Anyway my question is, does 5-20w oil, being so "thin" provide enough protection during summer months? Temps range from 85-100.
I know engine and oil technology has changed over the years but I still am fearful.
2nd question: I have had the car for about 6 months and have put on 25,000 miles. Would it be worth doing a UOA to see how everything is holding up?
Thanks for the input.
Mark
Mobil 1 5-20w for summer
- Thread starter MPANELLI
- Start date
- Status
Do a UOA and see what you see. I would up the OCI to 5000 or 6000 though and then do the UOA. 3000 HWY mile on synthetic oil is really a huge waste of money and resources!! Personely I do not pay much attention to milage. I change my oil every 6 months or so. I would draw the line at 10,000 miles as a matter of my personel limit in a 6 month OCI. The key though is to use UOA to be your guide.
I'd change the air filter and skip the UOA...the Honda 4 cylinder should be fine at 8K to 10K with Mobil 1 5W-20, especially with your driving.
I might run some Techron or Redline SI-1 on a regular basis.
If you run a full bottle of Chevron Techron injector cleaner, its best before the oil change.
Redline SI-1 works fine as adding 1 ounce / 10 gallons of fuel
Other products to look at would be:
Lube Control FP60 and LC20 [from lubecontrol.com] ,
Valvoline Synthetic Oil Treatment [ Part Number 066 ordered at NAPA] ,
and Auto-RX from auto-rx.net.
Its not that the Mobil 1 5W-20 isn't good by itself, its just that some of us car and oil obsessed idiots feel that maybe these additives in very small amounts can keep the injectors and engine cleaner or upgrade the oil a little.
Does your Honda have an OLM? I have a 2006 Ridgeline and it has one. It is part of the maintenance minder and tells you what the oil life expectancy is at any given time. When it reaches 15%, a notice flashes telling you service is due. At 0%, it will tell you service is past due. This is the best method to determine the OCI for your particular car and driving habits and you can not go wrong following the monitor. Since you use synthetic and the OLM is calibrated for dino, you have some extra insurance there as synthetic lasts longer than dino.
quote:Totally agree. That oil is excellent and changing your air filter IAW OEM recommendations should be a priority item.
I'd change the air filter and skip the UOA...the Honda 4 cylinder should be fine at 8K to 10K with Mobil 1 5W-20, especially with your driving.
quote:
I might run some Techron or Redline SI-1 on a regular basis. If you run a full bottle of Chevron Techron injector cleaner, its best before the oil change. Redline SI-1 works fine as adding 1 ounce / 10 gallons of fuel Other products to look at would be: Lube Control FP60 and LC20 [from lubecontrol.com] , Valvoline Synthetic Oil Treatment [ Part Number 066 ordered at NAPA] , and Auto-RX from auto-rx.net. Its not that the Mobil 1 5W-20 isn't good by itself, its just that some of us car and oil obsessed idiots feel that maybe these additives in very small amounts can keep the injectors and engine cleaner or upgrade the oil a little.
![[No no]](/forums/graemlins/nono.gif)
What's with you lot? ![[Roll Eyes]](images/icons/rolleyes.gif){kind=icon}
Don't you realise, that by using all those additives you may be compromising chemistry of some of the most effective products on the market?quote:To my mind the Mobil One 5w20 (0w20 also) is probably one of the best for your Honda engine. I use the 0w20 in my Honda Civic and it runs like the proverbial top. Keep in mind the oem recommendation for (CONVENTIONAL 5w20 ) oil change is 10,000 miles with an EVERY other oil change, FILTER change (20,000 miles). Indeed I ran the factory fill, first oil change 10,000 and indeed changed the oil filter at 20,000 miles. So if it were mine I would see your cycles as almost total overkill. In my opinion, it is SO much overkill that if you insisted on 3000 mile OCI's, as much as I like the Mobil One products, I would recommend you going to a conventional 5w20 product. You are in effect paying 7.4 x more than you should in terms of per mile lubricated!!!!!! Again this is beyond overkill. So on the oil you mentioned go a min of 10,000 and do the filters at 20,000, as per OEM recommendation of course. In fact my cycle will be OCI of 20,000 and filter change. I would almost bet that if you did oil analysis at your stated intervals and the 10,000 mile intervals and 20,000 mile filter change I had mentioned you would see NO statistical abnormalities. Indeed results should be absolutely EXCELLENT. [ June 17, 2006, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]
Originally posted by MPANELLI: ... I own a 06 Honda accord 4cyl. Honda recommends 5-20w so I have chosen Mobil 1 5-20 as my oil. I drive alot, about 150 miles per day. I change the oil & filter every 6-8 weeks or 5000 miles. I know the oil will last longer but I have done the 3000 oil change for 15 years and habits are hard to break. Anyway my question is, does 5-20w oil, being so "thin" provide enough protection during summer months? Temps range from 85-100. I know engine and oil technology has changed over the years but I still am fearful. 2nd question: I have had the car for about 6 months and have put on 25,000 miles. Would it be worth doing a UOA to see how everything is holding up? ...
Although this 5w-20 topic has been discussed at much length over the last few years, most of the responses are of the "works for me" nature. One data point which is usually lacking is the actual oil pressure under various ambient temperature and operating conditions. Most cars have idiot lights. So who knows what the actual oil pressure really is.
OHC engines need enough oil pressure to ensure that sufficient oil reaches the camshafts at the top of the engine. In areas with heavy traffic congestion, hot weather idling in heavy summer traffic can cause oil to thin out frighteningly. Cruising at highway speeds is not as much of a problem. If someone spends a lot of time stuck in traffic in hot weather, it would be worth installing a real oil pressure gauge, even if only temporarily, in order to verify that there is sufficient oil pressure under these conditions.
quote:Under your conditions your engine will be just fine.
Originally posted by MPANELLI: Anyway my question is, does 5-20w oil, being so "thin" provide enough protection during summer months? Temps range from 85-100. I know engine and oil technology has changed over the years but I still am fearful.
quote:Yes it does have a OLM. I dont trust it. Mainly because I don't understand it and doubt it takes ACTUAL driving & conditions in consideration.
Originally posted by martyi: Does your Honda have an OLM? I have a 2006 Ridgeline and it has one. It is part of the maintenance minder and tells you what the oil life expectancy is at any given time. When it reaches 15%, a notice flashes telling you service is due. At 0%, it will tell you service is past due. This is the best method to determine the OCI for your particular car and driving habits and you can not go wrong following the monitor. Since you use synthetic and the OLM is calibrated for dino, you have some extra insurance there as synthetic lasts longer than dino.
quote:Yes I know it is overkill. Just to clarify- I change the oil & filter every 5000 or so. I "can't" change the oil every 10k & filter every 20k. I would worry way too much about it. I don't really mind spending a little more money per change. It's worth the piece of mind. IMO. Thanks for the help [ June 17, 2006, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: MPANELLI ]
Originally posted by ruking77: To my mind the Mobil One 5w20 (0w20 also) is probably one of the best for your Honda engine. I use the 0w20 in my Honda Civic and it runs like the proverbial top. Keep in mind the oem recommendation for (CONVENTIONAL 5w20 ) oil change is 10,000 miles with an EVERY other oil change, FILTER change (20,000 miles). Indeed I ran the factory fill, first oil change 10,000 and indeed changed the oil filter at 20,000 miles. So if it were mine I would see your cycles as almost total overkill. In my opinion, it is SO much overkill that if you insisted on 3000 mile OCI's, as much as I like the Mobil One products, I would recommend you going to a conventional 5w20 product. You are in effect paying 7.4 x more than you should in terms of per mile lubricated!!!!!! Again this is beyond overkill. So on the oil you mentioned go a min of 10,000 and do the filters at 20,000, as per OEM recommendation of course. In fact my cycle will be OCI of 20,000 and filter change. I would almost bet that if you did oil analysis at your stated intervals and the 10,000 mile intervals and 20,000 mile filter change I had mentioned you would see NO statistical abnormalities. Indeed results should be absolutely EXCELLENT.
quote:Thin oil means better oil flow, albeit at reduced pressure. You argue that thinning of oil with temperature is bad, and then argue that thin oil doesn't flow as well to the upper parts of the engine. This does seem to be a contradiction of sorts. Generally speaking, Flow = Pressure / Resistance. If resistance drops (because the oil is hotter, and thus, viscosity reduced), flow should actually increase, providing for better lubrication. Pressure might be reduced, albeit slightly, but not at the expense of flow. So really, don't worry too much about oil pressure. When oil is hot, pressure will naturally come under 'pressure' (pardon the pun). The real issue to be concerned with in hot temperatures is not pressure at all, but rather whether or not the oil is suffering oxidative breakdown over the interval it is being used for. All Honda/Ford-rated 5W-20 oils on the shelves are synth blends or full synths for exactly that reason -- so they can withstand long intervals without excessive oxidization. 20k filter changes are just fine. Changing filters excessively is right up there, in terms of waste, with the 3k mile oil change. Excessive changing of motor oil filters increases our dependance on foreign oil imports.
Originally posted by vizvo: OHC engines need enough oil pressure to ensure that sufficient oil reaches the camshafts at the top of the engine. In areas with heavy traffic congestion, hot weather idling in heavy summer traffic can cause oil to thin out frighteningly. Cruising at highway speeds is not as much of a problem. If someone spends a lot of time stuck in traffic in hot weather, it would be worth installing a real oil pressure gauge, even if only temporarily, in order to verify that there is sufficient oil pressure under these conditions.
pitzel, I really can't agree with your claim that oil pressure isn't important. The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) plainly states in their Internal Combustion Engine Handbook that oil viscosity should be chosen so that a fully warmed up engine has sufficient oil pressure at hot idle. So if your 0w-20 provides enough oil pressure at hot idle, then that's terrific.
I'm not adverse to your favorite oil. But if anyone has doubts, put an oil pressure gauge on the vehicle and decide for themselves from that data. As the Great Communicator himself so eloquently stated, "Trust but verify". The fact is engines without sufficient oil pressure suffer catastrophic failure.
Keep in mind that the data from someone stuck in traffic in Tucson, Arizona (102° F currently) might be somewhat different than from someone cruising through Regina, Saskatchewan (55° F currently).
quote:I don't have the book, but assuming that the oil retains its properties to provide adequate boundary lubrication, flow, and not pressure, is the meaningful variable. Oil 'pressure' gauges are fitted to cars to help inform the operator of a catastrophic loss of oil, the severe depletion in the quantity of oil, or the mechanical degradation of the functionality of oil pumps and lubrication circuits. Here's an example to think of: imagine that you are a motor, and you can either be lubricated by sucking thick milkshakes, or by sucking Coca Cola through a straw. Both milkshakes and Coca Cola are equally effective in lubricating you. Which lubrication 'system' involves more 'pressure', and which lubrication 'system' can pump a greater quantity of 'lubricant' into your lubricated parts? The Coca Cola, right? Because it is far less viscous than the milkshakes. The Coca Cola also can flow at a much greater rate than the milkshake, with less pressure. If (and only if) Coca Cola can perform the duties of lubrication just as well as a thick milk shake, then the Coca Cola obviously makes for a better lubricant, even though the 'pressure' through the straw is dramatically less.
Originally posted by vizvo: pitzel, I really can't agree with your claim that oil pressure isn't important. The Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) plainly states in their Internal Combustion Engine Handbook that oil viscosity should be chosen so that a fully warmed up engine has sufficient oil pressure at hot idle. So if your 0w-20 provides enough oil pressure at hot idle, then that's terrific.
quote:No, engines without sufficient oil flow.
I'm not adverse to your favorite oil. But if anyone has doubts, put an oil pressure gauge on the vehicle and decide for themselves from that data. As the Great Communicator himself so eloquently stated, "Trust but verify". The fact is engines without sufficient oil pressure suffer catastrophic failure.
quote:It hits +40C here from time to time. The issue is: Can xW-20 provide adequate valvetrain, bottom-end and intra-cylinder metal-on-metal lubrication, at the temperatures that the oil ultimately runs at in Arizona, without oxidizing at an excessive rate? If this question can be answered in the affirmative, then as long as flow rates are acceptably high, then xW-20 is just fine. Contemporary cars that are converted to xW-20 often only need some slight modifications to the idiot light system to accomodate this reality, so that drivers are not alarmed by the lower pressures that thinner oils enable (thus reducing pumping losses in the oil circuit). Sometimes oil pumps will be slightly modified to optimize energy efficiency for a lower viscosity oil. [ June 17, 2006, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: pitzel ]
Keep in mind that the data from someone stuck in traffic in Tucson, Arizona (102° F currently) might be somewhat different than from someone cruising through Regina, Saskatchewan (55° F currently).
If I was going to change the oil/filter @ 5K I would save myself some money and use 5w20 Motorcraft, E-M, Pennzoil, GTX, Havoline etc... All of these are excellent oils and your Accord (engine) will last 300K or even 400K with no problems. Mobil 1 0w20 and 5w20 are excellent oils but are not really worth the price if you are not going to use them to their potential (or at least to 7K or 8K).
What's with you lot?
Don't you realise, that by using all those additives you may be compromising chemistry of some of the most effective products on the market?
----------------
I'm very very bad!! ![[LOL!]](/forums/graemlins/lol.gif)
![[Cheers!]](/forums/graemlins/cheers.gif)
I think most fuel injector cleaners work very well, even if top tier gasoline is supposed to have better additive treat levels I add some cleaner.
I have nearly 500K on the original motor and the original injectors in our '86 BMW M20 motor.
I was thinking about that recently, regular use of Techron and Redline SI-1 sure didn't hurt anything.
The other additives may seem like I'm messing with the superb chemistry...but sometimes I wonder if the chemistry is that perfect.
Perhaps I'm improving 'carefully priced', or compromised, or 'marketing influenced' chemistry.
I'm picking good basestock oils and adding a little extra moly or ZDDP, or solvency for varnish and carbon, or esters for keeping the rings clean, or a little oil in the gas to keep fuel pumps or upper cylinder parts lubed.
I see improvments in MPG, and driveability, and the cars last forever in a tough environment with hard driving.
There's lots of posts on LC20/ FP60/ ARX/ VSOT/ UCL and they all work fine. I like the results.
[ June 18, 2006, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Thatwouldbegreat ]quote:I would be very interested in seeing that UOA assuming you don't use after market additives. I hope you will post it in the UOA Forum here.
Originally posted by MPANELLI: 2nd question: I have had the car for about 6 months and have put on 25,000 miles. Would it be worth doing a UOA to see how everything is holding up? Thanks for the input. Mark
MPANELLI, You have received many replies and not one
![[Welcome!]](/forums/graemlins/welcome.gif)
I hope that you don't get confused by the lack of concensus of these offerings.
It took me a long while to learn just how to read through replies and find the gold nuggets when I first landed here, and longer to start to try to understand the more technical threads.
You asked if a UOA would be worthwhile. I would suggest that it is very worthwhile and even more so if you enlist Terry Dyson to help you with reading said analysis.
I have done this once and will continue to do this. Terry is quite expert and I know that I'm not, so his services are precious to me in determining what is happening with my engine and how to optimize the lubrication regimin.
Consider that with UOA Terry may be able to get you to the point that you are confortable with 10K OCI's. The difference in spending time and money on too frequent OCI's may be spent on the UOA and Terry's fees at first, but the education that you get might allow you to be doing these things from a point of knowledge rather than guessing at them.
Again, Welcome and good luck determining how you'll proceed. John
I hope that you don't get confused by the lack of concensus of these offerings.
It took me a long while to learn just how to read through replies and find the gold nuggets when I first landed here, and longer to start to try to understand the more technical threads.
You asked if a UOA would be worthwhile. I would suggest that it is very worthwhile and even more so if you enlist Terry Dyson to help you with reading said analysis.
I have done this once and will continue to do this. Terry is quite expert and I know that I'm not, so his services are precious to me in determining what is happening with my engine and how to optimize the lubrication regimin.
Consider that with UOA Terry may be able to get you to the point that you are confortable with 10K OCI's. The difference in spending time and money on too frequent OCI's may be spent on the UOA and Terry's fees at first, but the education that you get might allow you to be doing these things from a point of knowledge rather than guessing at them.
Again, Welcome and good luck determining how you'll proceed. JohnHi Mark,
Welcome. I have 2005 Accord 4 cyl and 2005 CRV 4 cyl. In the winter I use 0-30 German Castrol mostly. In the summer I use Mobil 1 10-30 (even 10-40). Always synthetics and with Mobil 1 filters. I do my OCIs every 4-5,000 miles.
I also do Auto Tranny fluid fill and drain every 2 oil changes (I only use Hondat ATF).
Good luck.
- Status