Everyone is probably well aware that Mobil 1 0w40 is factory fill in all Mercedes AMG models. However, in the comparison test between the S600 and the BMW 760Li in the July issue of Car & Driver, if you look closely at the underhood shot of the Mercedes, the Mobil 1 sticker is clearly visible.
There are several 229.5 oils Mercedes could have chosen to put in this 493 HP twin turbo beast, but they decided on Mobil 1 0w40.
Mobil 1 0w40 in Mercedes V12s
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quote:Yep, thats bc Mobil 1 is good stuff. They could have chosen from Castrol, and even the smaller brands, but they didn't. Many will say Mobil bought them out. Who knows.... Why did we see such high consumption with the 3MP study? Dstressor had a good point:
There are several 229.5 oils Mercedes could have chosen to put in this 493 HP twin turbo beast, but they decided on Mobil 1 0w40
quote:[ June 21, 2003, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
A TGA is essentially the slope of the distillation curve. If the only components were PAO, the peaks of the TGA would reflect the molecular mass of each component. Interestingly the Supersyns all show a small peak at >400 degrees. Maybe this is the Supersyn component itself, which is rumored to be a high MW PAO. Nice approach. They use a lower viscosity base stock for each grade and still get good shear resistance and viscosity retention under HTHS conditions.
quote:Why do some cars come with Michelin tires and other with Dunlop, and yet other with Pirelli? Why do some cars come with Alpine or Matsushita radios? Why do some cars come with NGK spark plugs while others come with Bosch plugs? It's really simple in the world of part suppliers. The car manufacturer sends out an RFP (request for proposal) to a number of part suppliers. The one who can meet all the required specs (MB 229.5 in this case) at the lowest cost wins the bid. I'm pretty sure this age old and simple rule applies to engine oil as well. Sure, there could be some history and company relationship building weighing in, but at the end of the day, it's all about money.
Originally posted by G-Man II: There are several 229.5 oils Mercedes could have chosen to put in this 493 HP twin turbo beast, but they decided on Mobil 1 0w40.
quote:True, and when your factory fill in some of the best automobile's in the world, I'm sure they want very good oil in the car. When you factor in price, performance (all around performance) and availabiltiy, Mobil 1 is the best out there. API is part of it too.
It's really simple in the world of part suppliers
I think another issue is research capabilities. Mobil is and was considered the biggest commercial producers/developers of synthetic oil. I'm not sure when Mobil 1 was specified for MB but I'm guessing it was in circa 1990 when Mobil 1 was really the "only game in town" I'm sure it was not lost on MB that any issues that came up with this engine (in the area of durability/lubrication) would have gotten big priority from Mobil 1's major research team.
And let's face it MB is not going to go with Amsoil or Redline. So it's really Mobil 1 by default.
I guess Castrol would be the only other major competitor.. but do they make a comparable product? I guess the 10w60 is too thick? ![[I dont know]](/forums/graemlins/dunno.gif)
quote:Castrol makes some very good oil in Europe, Castrol R I think. Not sure what other viscosities there are. By hooking up with a company like Mobil, MB will always have the latest oil out there. Mobil's a huge company and there R&D is huge so when changes in the industry are taking place, Mobil can whip something up very quickly. Amsoil and Redline are specialty companies and basically go "one step" beyond the mass producers like Mobil and Castrol. And it's been said on here many times before, that for $5 a qt. there is only so much you can do. While Amsoil and Redline should be better, and are on paper, it's still up in there air to exactly "how much" or "if at all" they are better.
And let's face it MB is not going to go with Amsoil or Redline. So it's really Mobil 1 by default.
Wow...some you you really need to wipe your noses. No...M-1 isn't the "best" out there.
The truth is M-B has a contract with M-1 stemming from F1 sponsorship. The same with BMW and Castrol. All new BMW's and Mini's come with Castrol from the factory and the oil caps that say "BMW recommends Castrol". Likewise, Shell for Ferrari, etc...remember $60/qt...?
quote:Dr. T, why does MB have a contract with Mobil? Because they know they are capable of meeting there demands. Yes....M1 is the best out there as far as OTC oil in North America. Dr T., Mobil formulates to what we need here in the US, not Europe. They follow API requirements. Mobil could easily make an oil as good or better then the one's you mentioned but they don't need to. Here in the states it's 30wt now 20wt oils. It's all about fuel efficiency here.
Wow...some you you really need to wipe your noses. No...M-1 isn't the "best" out there
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[ June 21, 2003, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: buster ]Just to keep things in perspective, Mobil is just a brand name owned by ExxonMobil Corp. Castrol is just a brand name owned by British Petroleum. BP is bigger in lubes in Europe than ExxonMobil, but Mobil 1 is far more readily available in North America than any of BP's equivalent products...remember, Mobil 1 0W-40 (and 15W-50) are different formulations than their xW-30 line.
Ken
I don't agree. M-1 (just like every other company) is only as good as they have to be. Period. They adapt to the market (as every other company). And since we've seen the M-B lawsuits posted here....M-B OBVIOUSLY is, like other manufacturers (especially foreign) CLUELESS when it comes to what lubes are sold where and when. And, I'm not sure if it's the same stuff....I hope you know M-1 has DIFFERENT specs for European versions of their oil...else we'd see the one single same MDS....same oil as N.A.? Same market? Doubt it.
quote:Everyone is entitled to there own opinion. But what oils are so much better then? You havn't named any or compared apples to apples. You can't compare a $60qt. oil to a $5 qt oil. That makes no sense. Of course what goes in a Ferrari of F1 car will have better specs. And what M-B lawsuits are you talking about? I highly doubt MB is CLUELESS about anything. You obviously don't read enough of the UOA's posted here.
And since we've seen the M-B lawsuits posted here....M-B OBVIOUSLY is, like other manufacturers (especially foreign) CLUELESS when it comes to what lubes are sold where and when
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[ June 21, 2003, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: buster ]quote:And I hope you know that the 0w40 is the one Mobil 1 that IS the same worldwide. The oil that's sold here in the US meets ALL the toughest European OEM specs as well as the ACEA specs. Same specs, same oil.
Originally posted by Dr. T: And, I'm not sure if it's the same stuff....I hope you know M-1 has DIFFERENT specs for European versions of their oil...else we'd see the one single same MDS....same oil as N.A.? Same market? Doubt it.
quote:Because LS1 and LS6 engines are known to use oil. I've used Mobil 1 for years in various type cars and I've never had a consumption problem. The ONLY car that I used Mobil 1 in that required the addition of any oil between changes was my mother's 1987 Taurus. It would use a quart about every 5000 miles. My 1997 Old minivan (currently using Mobil 1 0w40; 5w30 previously used) with 140,000+ miles on it doesn't use any oil between changes. My Chrysler never "consumed" Mobil 1 either, and it's not using the German Syntec so far.
Originally posted by buster: Why did we see such high consumption with the 3MP study?
Let's see here. Looking at the back of the bottle of Castrol Syntect 5w50 I just put into my engine.
API SERVICE SL/SJ/CF
ACEA: A3,B3-98
ALSO MEETS ENGINE PROTECTION REQUIRMENTS OF ILSAC GF-3 PORSCHE,BMW,VOLVO AND MERCEDES BENZ
So to say that Mobil 1 is the best Off the shelf oil there is, I doubt it. One of the best. I like that term better. I really doubt Mobil 1 protects any better or worse then syntec. ![[Cheers!]](/forums/graemlins/cheers.gif)
quote:You've got a lot to learn about what goes into making a "good" synthetic oil. Once you undertand the FUNDAMENTAL difference between Syntec (except for the German 0w30) and Mobil 1, it's very easy to state with absolute confidence that "Mobil 1 is the best off the shelf oil there is"—if you're comparing it to Castrol's Syntec.
Originally posted by Oilmeup: Let's see here. Looking at the back of the bottle of Castrol Syntect 5w50 I just put into my engine. API SERVICE SL/SJ/CF ACEA: A3,B3-98 ALSO MEETS ENGINE PROTECTION REQUIRMENTS OF ILSAC GF-3 PORSCHE,BMW,VOLVO AND MERCEDES BENZ So to say that Mobil 1 is the best Off the shelf oil there is, I doubt it. One of the best. I like that term better. I really doubt Mobil 1 protects any better or worse then syntec.
Well, I keep asking what makes it better, but no one can give me an answer, other then, oh its not really a "Synthetic". Well, you know,
Bob's oil is only a semi synthetic, but puts up pretty good numbers.
I am in NO way saying Mobil 1 is bad. I just don't think anyone can say that my engine will be better off with Mobil 1 versus Syntec. Last I saw, Syntec had a good additive package in it.
Also, Hydrocracked..... without any bios, can someone make the claim that it doesn't perform like a PAO. Im trying to learn, but I can't get the answers I need.
I can say with all honesty, that the best oil to use is......
WHichever one you are partial too. At least you are doing the maintance on your vehicle. I love to take care of my vehicles, but I would prefer a new one before I hit 200,000 miles. Im at 120,000 right now. But hey, its a Nissan.
quote:Take the time to dig into the many posts on this forum and most, if not all, your questions will eventually be answered. There is plenty of documentation out there that shows Group III base oils (only some of which are produced through hydrocracking) come close to PAO, but NONE perform as good as or out perform it. When it comes to finished motor oils, a properly formulated Group III can go up against a PAO based oil, but when it comes to extremely long drains, the PAO will hold up better. Case in point: NONE of the oils that meet the newest (and toughest) European OEM extended drain specs are Group III based (though I suspect some DO have some Group III in them). Castrol's Syntec 5w50 is PRIMARILY a Group III based oil, with some Group V (esters). Because the inherent VI of even the best Group III caps out at around 140, Castrol still has to use a pretty good dose of VI improver to get that 5-50 vis spread. By contrast, the state of PAOs and esters is such now that a 5w50 produced with those base oils can be made easily with little or no VI improver. Castrol certainly has the technological wherewithal to do this, since there is good anecdotal evidence to indicate that their Formula SLX 0w30 (sold in the US as Syntec 0w30 "Made in Germany") and Formula R 0w40 are both based primarily on high VI Group V esters and the vis spreads are achieved without the use of VI improvers. ANY oil will perform better over the long haul (and under extreme conditions) if it has the least amount of polymeric VI possible, so, obviously, NONE would be the ideal. NB: Mobil has indicated in an SAE tech paper that their 0wXX oils achieve their vis spread almost exclusively from the inherent VI of the base oil blend.
Originally posted by Oilmeup: Well, I keep asking what makes it better, but no one can give me an answer, other then, oh its not really a "Synthetic". Well, you know, Bob's oil is only a semi synthetic, but puts up pretty good numbers. I am in NO way saying Mobil 1 is bad. I just don't think anyone can say that my engine will be better off with Mobil 1 versus Syntec. Last I saw, Syntec had a good additive package in it. Also, Hydrocracked..... without any bios, can someone make the claim that it doesn't perform like a PAO. Im trying to learn, but I can't get the answers I need.
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