Mobil 1 0w20: Thinking of using it...

[G-MAN]

I'll be changing the oil in my Chrysler in the next few weeks (and doing a UOA on the German Castrol), and I'm giving some serious thought to trying Mobil 1 0w20. This oil has got my curiosity up, and I'm interested to see how it would do. Chrysler recommends 10w30 (conventional) for the 3.5 HO in my 300M, but I'm convinced that Mobil 1 0w20 would offer just as good (and probably better) protection as any conventional 10w30. I'll go on record now and predict that this grade of Mobil 1 is going to prove to be the most shear stable Mobil 1 sold, BTW. (We sometimes forget that when Mobil 1 was introduced, it was a 5w20—and that was back when 5w30 was unheard of and people thought 10w40 was the only way to go, and Shell had a 10w50 on the market.) What do you guys think? Do you foresee any problems running a 0w20 in my Chrysler?

 

[Patman]

Do you drive this car hard a lot? If so, don't even consider using 0w20 in it. Stick with the GC 0w30 for a couple of intervals and see how it does first before switching to anything else, or you'll never really know for sure how it performs just by one UOA.

 

[buster]

quote:

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I'll go on record now and predict that this grade of Mobil 1 is going to prove to be the most shear stable Mobil 1 sold, BTW. (We sometimes forget that when Mobil 1 was introduced, it was a 5w20—and that was back when 5w30 was unheard of and people thought 10w40 was the only way to go, and Shell had a 10w50 on the market.) What do you guys think? Do you foresee any problems running a 0w20 in my Chrysler?

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G-ManII, I see no problems at all running for reasons I stated before. If it works in Ford V8's and clearances havn't changed, your good to go. I'm running it now and love it. My car feels much better on it. I can't get over how much of a difference to be honest. Whether that translates into good wear numbers remains to be seen but I say go for it. M1 0w-20 contains much more esters and should be extremely shear stable as the 10w-30. If anything it will only thicken.

 

[Al]

Well the classical bearing formula says that wear are reduced by: Higher speed Lower load Higher viscosity. Naturally there are limits to the above but speeds/loads/ and 20 wt. vs 30 wt. would fall within the parameters of automobile bearings. Sorry-I'm not buying the lighter oil thing. I'm not a very adventurous person . On the flip side though 20 wt flow (if the oil pump can pump it) will certainly supply more lubricant and the temperatures would be lower. The thing that worries me in your situation is SC (hot) and Chrysler (has it been tested with 20 wt oil? But I applaud your willingness to try it-perhaps we'll all learn.

 

[metroplex]

I'm using M1 5w-30 in all of my Ford Modular Motors - 2000 4.6L SOHC V8 and the 2003 5.4L SOHC V8. Both are driven very hard - can we say drag racing, WOT, jackrabbit starts all the time? My best ET w/ the Crown Vic is 15.5 and best MPH is 89.16 mph, best 60' is 2.3 This was at 600' ASL at 95F. At a better track (closer to sea level) and cooler air temps, it would run 15.2-15.3 I could definitely feel my 4.6 running quieter and smoother. I've logged 3k miles on the 5.4 w/ M1 5W-30 and only 700 miles on the 4.6 w/ M1 5W-30. My friend has an Eaton blower on his 99 Crown Vic - he has the AED Kit. It's making about 320 hp and 360 ft-lbs, and he uses 10W-40 dino Pennzoil in his 4.6 He's made about 50 passes at the dragstrip as well as 3000 miles of normal driving on the SAME engine oil. When I raced it last, the dipstick oil did NOT look good. I found signs of coking on the dipstick (hard deposits left from coked oil). The only way I knew how to look for it was I have the same stuff on my 81 T-bird's 302 dipstick - I also use dino 10W-40 in that engine. My best ET with his car was 14.3 and best MPH was 95 mph. I ran his car for the MM&FF luxobarge shootout and they're going to run an incredibly pathetic time and speed because they're refusing to record the first and my best run. Let's just say I bested my best ET in his car and bumped by MPH up. I wonder how long it will take before G-Man II changes his name to M1 0W-20 [ September 18, 2003, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: metroplex ]

 

[Patman]

Another thing to consider is the oil temps. If you're stuck in traffic quite often, I can guarantee you your oil temps are going to be quite hot, and imagine how thin a 0w20 will be when the oil is 250F, if it's only 8cst at 100c (212F)?

 

[G-MAN]

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Originally posted by metroplex: I wonder how long it will take before G-Man II changes his name to M1 0W-20

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Maybe you should change your name to "Off Topic." What, exactly, did all you had to say have to do with Mobil 1 0w20 and my question?

 

[MolaKule]

G_Man, I say go for it and test it at 2.5k against a virgin sample.

 

[Dr. T]

My only question is what's the curiosity with using a 0-20?? In either case, go for it and report back to us your increased noise, consumption and eventual coking of the insides of the engine....oh, and do a UOA to show increased Fe wear numbers over a 30, 40 and 50 weight. But back them up with an increase in fuel economy. Keep us informed!

 

[MolaKule]

FWIW, Initial data from the Clearance/Viscosity study shows just about any oil between 4.5 cSt and 16.5 cSt will provide sufficient film thickness for most clearances found in today's daily drivers.

 

[TooSlick]

Al, With the Amsoil "ASL", 5w-30 I had 10 ppm of lead after a run of 12,000 miles. Following that I ran the Amsoil 5w-20 over the winter - about 7 months - and got 30 ppm of lead after 6000 miles. I don't like to make too much of one test, but I was sort of alarmed at these results. I tend to lug this Tacoma 2.4L, five speed quite a bit, so I think a heavier oil may be desirable. My take on this thin oil stuff is if the oil is truly too thin, you will tend to see a rather dramatic difference in bearing wear, ie Pb/Cu/Sn levels. It is critical to maintain some minimum oil pressure in order to reduce bearing wear. I like to see 15-20 psi/1000 rpms for a domestic engine application, although some import four cylinder engines run much higher than that to generate rapid oil circulation and cooling. For example, VW/Audi engines will run 60-80 psi @ 3000 rpms if they are in good shape, even with a syn 0w-30 or 5w-30. TS

 

[speedybenz]

I know I am interested in trying this oil in my AMG C43 V-8. I ran my Suprbike motor on a 0-20wt Maxima oil in 2000. The main bearing clearance on the crank was 0.0018-0.0020" while the rod bearing clearance was 0.002-0.0024". Piston to wall clearance was 0.002" Bore 75.5mm. Engine speed max was 14,500 rpm. While we changed oil after every weekend we did not see any abnormal wear on the bearings or camshaft buckets over a year of racing. The engine was torn down twice to the crank to check bearing wear which was excellent and so the bearings remained in-place. While I would like to run a 0-20wt for performance reasons I should tell you I change oil every 2000-3000 miles max on the above car,due to hard driving, so maybe my experiences would be different than others who tend to leave oil in thier engines for longer periods of time. Jeff

 

[Whimsey]

I thought that the UOA of various vehicles showed that the 5W-20 oils did good. And many were in trucks, ie low rpm high load engines. As I recall one was in Houston in the heat and stop and go traffic and another was in a Ford Lighting and yet another in a Ford V-10. Off course these engines were spec'd for the 20 weight oils. But then again some say that these engines have not changed from when 5W-30 oil was recommended . I would think that the Mobil 1 0W-20 oil being much better than the regular 5W-20's would do even better. But I guess the smart thing to do is to see whether your manufacture allows for the use of a 20 weight oil. Whimsey

 

[Flimflam]

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Originally posted by speedybenz: I know I am interested in trying this oil in my AMG C43 V-8. I ran my Suprbike motor on a 0-20wt Maxima oil in 2000. The main bearing clearance on the crank was 0.0018-0.0020" while the rod bearing clearance was 0.002-0.0024". Piston to wall clearance was 0.002" Bore 75.5mm. Engine speed max was 14,500 rpm. While we changed oil after every weekend we did not see any abnormal wear on the bearings or camshaft buckets over a year of racing. The engine was torn down twice to the crank to check bearing wear which was excellent and so the bearings remained in-place. While I would like to run a 0-20wt for performance reasons I should tell you I change oil every 2000-3000 miles max on the above car,due to hard driving, so maybe my experiences would be different than others who tend to leave oil in thier engines for longer periods of time. Jeff

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You run a bike on 0w-20 oil? Sorry, I just cannot get my mind around that. In the late 1970's, 1980's, I ran air-cooled InLine Fours (Honda's), used Castrol GTX 20w-50 and Castrol HD-30. For racetrack, HD-30 mostly. I just cannot believe that a bike can survive the thin lube film of a 0w-20. Btw, one of my 1977 Honda InLine Fours is still taking my buddy to work every day. It is a CB 400 F Super Sport with stock rearset footpegs and stock low handlebars. Runs like a Rolex watch. Has never had the valve covers off. The carbs are junk now, I think: but engine mechanicals are flawless. Run on an exclusive diet of Castrol Dinosaur Oil.

 

[rpn453]

Currently my thought is that I'd only use a 20 weight if it was recommended by the manufacturer, and probably only if it was still under warranty!

 

[Jay]

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Originally posted by Dr. T: ....oh, and do a UOA to show increased Fe wear numbers over a 30, 40 and 50 weight...

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In my Acura RSX I did a 7kmi test between M1 0w-20 and M1 5w-30 with good controls and had slightly lower wear numbers with the 0w-20. Iron was lower with the 0w-20 and lead was zero with both oils. My engine has roller cam followers and the recommended vis is 20-weight, however. [ September 18, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Jay ]

 

[speedybenz]

I think an advantage that the thinner oils have in high rpm (12,000-15,000rpm)is that as bearing speed increases the thinner oil is less prone to high shear forces in the oil film. Plus the lighter viscosity allows for a higher volume of oil passing through the bearings and this helps cool the bearings and remove contaminates. But any detonation will cause the oil film to dissappear and that means bearing failure. Jeff

 

[MolaKule]

"Even if someone does a lot of full throttle driving though? This is where I'd be concerned with using a 0w20 oil. I think it would work well for normal driving, but for someone who likes to rev out the engine a few times a day, it could be a recipe for more wear. " OK, Patman is going to make me further qualify a "Daily Driver." Daily Driver 1. Modern Four or Six cylinder Water-cooled engine between say 1.6L and 4.0L, non turbo. 2. Driver allows a 15 second stabilization period before driving off. 3. Driver accelerates slowly into and mixes with merging traffing. 4. No rabbit starts or overreving except for occasional misshift. No lugging. 5. Radiator is drained and refreshed every two years and oil changes every 5k. 7. Driving is from work to home and back with occasional trip to grocery store. 8. No pulling of loads or car overloaded at any time. 9. Does not race car. For racing or occasional racing and pulling loads where higher than normal heating may occur, a higher viscosity oil is probably needed. One has to also consider this fact in an historical setting: The older higher-viscosity oils were needed because the film thickness was provided mainly by the film's viscosity. With the more modern oils, the newer boundary additives supplement the thinner films. A study was done on oil rheology (I'll have to find the paper) which showed that even with Group III oils, if those oils had the proper boundary adds, such as Moly DTC, the wear was equal to or less than higher viscosity oils with substandard additive packages. Running a higher viscosity oil than necessary in a daily driver with 30% tighter clearances, is simply going to result in higher viscous heating of the oil with a resulting decrease in the oil flow and slightly lower average mpg. Sure, oil pressure may go up, but oil flow may be slower.

 

[Patman]

Even though my Firebird is technically my daily driver, in that I do drive it 365 days a year, to work and to run all my errands, I definitely wouldn't qualify under most of those rules listed above, especially numbers 3, 4 and 9. I sure love to do this:

 

[pscholte]

G-Man II. I will preface this by saying my recommendation is deliberately over cautious, but when making a recommendation to someone else for THEIR vehicle I am not going to be careless. I believe M1 0W20 is going to prove to be the best version in the M1 lineup when used in engines that can "handle it". I would be very cautious using it in an engine for which the OEM has not said a 20wt is ok. (Having said that, I had a friend who used the original M1 5W20 in his Celica GT towing a boat in FL with no problems and this 20wt is obviously higher tech than that 20 wt). If you are DYING to try it, I would do a UOA at no more than 1000 miles. Once we get a number of positive UOAs from a large number of different engine designs (e.g large/small displacement; tight/loose clearances; hot/cool running; high/lower revving) then we won't have to be so cautious. I also believe that M1, with the experience gained from increased testing and many street users, will ensure that MANY engines can use it, but unless UOAs demonstrate differently, I would not accept that they are necessarily THERE now.