Mobil 1 0w-40 vs German Castrol GC 0w-30

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JAG,

How did you notice the difference in the gold GC? All of my GC is "old stock" green.

-brian
 
buster: It's probably a grand oil. Many OEM's think so. Who am I to argue
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Jag: Thank you for taking the time to allow me to feel semi-normal (just semi, folks ..just semi
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)

I'm sure 5w-40 oils are superior in many durability/endurance standards, but cannot make it down the narrow corridor that our teutonic engine designers require without bumping the walls.


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Originally Posted By: gtx510
JAG, what about Valvoline Synpower (HST) 5W-40? It's MB 229.5
Does MB 229.51 have similar fuel economy requirements?
It's impressive for a 5W-40 to meet MB 229.5. It probably has very effective friction modifiers. I don't know if MB 229.51 has same FE requirements as 229.5 but I'd think so and you can maybe verify this by online searching.
Originally Posted By: brian
JAG,
How did you notice the difference in the gold GC? All of my GC is "old stock" green.
-brian
They stopped selling the Green years ago. In the Euro forum, I'm sure somebody figured out the date codes of the Green versions, if this interests you. I like the Green better actually. Different additives but base oils appear identical because volatilities are identical.

Gary, see you are not alone! Your posts cracked me up in this thread. I wish I could write so well...like Voltaire or something!
 
I think its a simple as the situation with dino 5W/10W-30's...

Years ago (early 1980's), in an attempt to get better fuel mileage out of cars, man. started mandating the use of thinner oils - 5W/10W-30's instead of the 10W-40's that were commen in use up till then. It took a HUGE amount of effort and time to get consumers to accept these newer, thinner oils.

So give it 10-15 years, and consumers and man. have FINALLY convinced people that 5W-30 is an okay grade of oil. But the push for better mileage had never gone away, and thinner oils are one way to do that. But after all the effort to convince joe public that 5W-30 is an okay grade of oil, you don't want to start all over again - witness the fact that a lot of people still don't trust 5W-20.

So, to fix this, oil man. 'fashion' 5W-30's to shear down to a 5W-20 shortly after installation. The economy of 5W-20, but still 5W-30 on the cap.

Now, take this entire scenario, and apply it to Euro-spec vehicles. B/C of oil cost, they tend to specify longer drain intervals. Those drain intervals tend to need thicker, 40-weight oils to accomplish. Even is a well-formulated 30-weight can do this, the public is convinced thicker is better. So make a 40 weight oil that shears down to 30-weight to get the advantage of that grade.

I don't know facts on this, but I bet M1 0W-40 outsells a lot of A3 rated 30-weights because of this. They've got the manufacturers on board...
 
imo, the same HT/HS with a lower vis is a better oil. What happens to the HT/HS after M1 is sheard down from 14cSt to below 12cSt?

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Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
imo, the same HT/HS with a lower vis is a better oil. What happens to the HT/HS after M1 is sheard down from 14cSt to below 12cSt?
That's just the effect of the polymers. Their thickening effect decreases as shear rate increases. Kinematic viscosity is done at ultra low shear rate while HTHS viscosity is done at 1/(million) shearing cycles per second.

When permanent viscosity loss is present, the HTHS percent decrease is probably approximately 1/2 the percent decrease in kinematic viscosity. Representative example: KV drops from 14.1 cst to 12.0 cst which is a 14.9% decrease. 1/2 that is 7.45% which is how much the HTHS drops from 3.7 cP. Sheared HTHS viscosity is therefore: 3.42 cP. Now the sheared KV of the oil is same as GC's virgin KV at 100C but the HTHS is lower than GC's virgin HTHS viscosity, barely, but is so because there is still some temporary viscosity loss (occuring at high shear rates) caused by what remains of the beaten up VIIs.

Straight weight mineral oils with KV of 12 cSt at 100C will often have HTHS of >3.5 cP.
 
JAG, thanks for explaining that.
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This is old, but gives you an indication of what happens. This is from an old test run on TSO.

Quote:
Who says it can't be done? "Most oil manufacturers use a quick shearing viscosity index improver that helps their oil pass the test by allowing its viscosity to drop," said the lab rep. "When the viscosity drops, intrafluid friction drops and fuel economy rises. But wear protection also drops. Of course, wear protection isn't a concern in the Sequence VI test. Fuel economy is the only concern AMSOIL insisted on using a shear stable viscosity index improver - it was, after all, part and parcel of the oil's formulation. After testing, the independent test facility changed its tune. "The AMSOIL synthetic 0W-30 had a fabulous EC-II pass in the Sequence VI," remarked the tester in an interoffice memo. In fact, it was the highest Sequence VI score ever recorded by the facility.
 
Hi,
Gary - In response to your comments I was less than specific - I said:

" In the case of Porsche their requirement is that the lubricant remain in the SAE30 realm after these extended tests."

In fact their minimum 100C viscosity after the extended Tests is I believe 11cSt - mid point in the SAE30 J300 range
 
Hi, Doug

It's just an odd new view for me and one that I still haven't quite boxed up and put on the shelf yet in true comprehension.

I keep going back to Dr. Haas with the sheared 10w-60 and rationalize that it was surviving well on it being sheared to a 30 grade.

I just have a hard time rationalizing oil life without oil visc being somewhere closer to flat land than it is to the slope on a mortgage amortization sheet.

I'll get over it
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Thanks for the attempts at turning on the lightbulb (as you have many times in the past).

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JAG,

I am wondering how you determined the GC 0w-30 was more volatile than the M1 0w-40.

Thanks,
Brian
 
JAG,

I appreciate the link. One thing of interest was the difference measured between the first and second tests of the Gold GC. 17.5% vs 22%. I wonder what M1 0w-40 would have done by comparison.

I had a 1987 Mercedes and ran Mobil 1 0w-40 and LubroMoly 0w-40 a time or two. I found that 5w-40 from Mobil or LubroMoly had better wear results.

Regards,
 
mmm, i've been reading this thread with great interest!.

I have a Euro E36 M3 (S50B32 engine, its an 3.2L inline 6 with individual throttle bodies, unlike the E36 m3 in the states, i think its the same as the aussie's get.)

Anyway, i have used mobil 1 0W40 in the past with good results. I've tried royal purple 5w40 and didn't like it at all. At the moment i have silkolene pro s 5W40 in it and gotta say this is a veyr good oil, feel better than the M1 5w40 I had.

After reading about M1 vs german Castrol 0W30 (by GC i presume you mean Castrol Edge, as in the UK we don't get GC) am i right in assuming that castrol edge 0w30 would be the the same if not better in my engine than the M1? Seeing as it shears down to a 30 weight anyway. The S50 is a high revving (7600rpm red line) 300+bhp engine, woudl the 0W30 provide enough protection for it?

thanks
 
It makes spec w/3.5cP HT/HS so yeah, it will work. Talk to Doug Hillary, he knows which AUS Castrol product corresponds to GC, he's just not telling.
 
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