Although the 0W-40 has the "0" designation, it is heavier than the 10W-30 when cold. Because cold start up is the largest threat to engines, wouldn't running a 10W-30 be better than the 0W-40 during the winter? Am I missing something? I use the 0W-40 in my 1997 SAAB 9000 Turbo now, but I need to take the train to work now and only drive 1 mile to the train station which isn't even enough to get my car to normal operating temps in the summer and forget the winter.
Mobil 1 0W-40 or 10W-30 in winter?
- Thread starter dagmando
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0w means it meets the cold cranking spec at -35C. 10w means it meets the cold cranking spec at -25C. 0w is the the best oil for ice-cold starts.
10w-30, when warmed up will be thinner than any xw-40 oil. Sounds like your car really doesn't get to full operating temperature too often...
10w-30, when warmed up will be thinner than any xw-40 oil. Sounds like your car really doesn't get to full operating temperature too often...
Stick with a 0W-40 or a 0W30 if you want that 0 deisgnation. Better cold start capability. Otherwise use Mobil 1 10W-30.
Since you only drive a mile to the train station..
I'd recommend you walk!
Seriously!
Have you any idea what that short a trip does; not just to you oil, but to your catalytic converter, injectors, valves, plugs? It is horrible abuse for the motor.
If you insist on driving, leave ealry and drive to the local coffee shop or something. Find at least 8km (5mi) in the summer and 16km (10mi) if you can help it in the winter.
[ August 11, 2004, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: luvs2drive ]
Since you only drive a mile to the train station..
Seriously!
Have you any idea what that short a trip does; not just to you oil, but to your catalytic converter, injectors, valves, plugs? It is horrible abuse for the motor.
If you insist on driving, leave ealry and drive to the local coffee shop or something. Find at least 8km (5mi) in the summer and 16km (10mi) if you can help it in the winter.
[ August 11, 2004, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: luvs2drive ]
This is not correct. The 0W(winter) oil is "lighter" (less viscous) than the 10W oil when cold. That's why it (0w40) flows better at low temperatures. The upper viscosity designation, "30" or "40", only comes into play at higher temperatures such as when the oil approaches 200 degrees F.
Patman
Staff member
Willar is right, don't confuse the 40C viscosity as the "cold viscosity"
Without a doubt the 0w40 will be thinner on a cold start in the winter than the 10w30.
Without a doubt the 0w40 will be thinner on a cold start in the winter than the 10w30.
Patman
Staff member
I agree. Now that I finally own a car with an oil temperature gauge, I can see how long it really does take for the oil to warm up. On a 70 degree day it only takes about 5min for my coolant to hit 190F, but at that point in time my oil is still only 130F! It takes at least another 15min for my oil to reach 200F. Imagine how much longer it's going to take in the wintertime when it's 0F!
Does that mean that a 5W-50 is actually thinner at say 10*F than the 10w-30 for startup? That would mean that the 0W-40 actually gets thicker as it heats up to surpass the 10W-30 and then cools thinner then the 10W-30 as rest. I guess that makes sense.
The 0w40 doesn't get thicker as it heats up, it just doesn't thin out as much as 10w30 does at high temps.
And yes, 5w50 is thinner at 10F than 10w30.
And yes, 5w50 is thinner at 10F than 10w30.
I did a little oil study last month, 5w40 synthetic mobil 1 is thicker than a dino 10w30 at 68 degrees.
A 0w/40 is thicker than a 10w/30 at freezing temps . A 5w/40 is thicker than a 5w/30 at freezing temps also. "cold start".
This is what my theory was also, so I was going to use Mobil 1 xW-30 during the winter for that intial startup and since I will never get the oil up to operating temp but once a week. I really need more cold start up protection than the xW-40W heat protection, even with a turbo.
this table will clear things up:
TEMP * M1 0W-40 * GC 0W-30 * M1 10W-30 * M1 0W-20
-20 * 2661.5 * 2609.0 * 3424.8 * 1712.7
-10 * 1197.8 * 1127.1 * 1332.9 * 730.8
0 * 599.3 * 546.6 * 595.7 * 352.8
10 * 327.6 * 291.8 * 298.3 * 188.5
20 * 192.9 * 168.8 * 164.1 * 109.5
30 * 121.0 * 104.4 * 97.6 * 68.3
40 * 80.0 * 68.4 * 62.0 * 45.1
50 * 55.4 * 47.0 * 41.6 * 31.3
60 * 39.8 * 33.7 * 29.2 * 22.6
70 * 29.7 * 25.0 * 21.4 * 17.0
80 * 22.7 * 19.1 * 16.1 * 13.1
90 * 17.8 * 15.0 * 12.5 * 10.4
100 * 14.3 * 12.0 * 10.0 * 8.4
110 * 11.7 * 9.8 * 8.1 * 6.9
120 * 9.8 * 8.2 * 6.7 * 5.8
130 * 8.2 * 6.9 * 5.7 * 5.0
140 * 7.0 * 5.9 * 4.9 * 4.3
150 * 6.1 * 5.1 * 4.2 * 3.7
Choose the oil based on what would be average starting temperature in the morning.
TEMP * M1 0W-40 * GC 0W-30 * M1 10W-30 * M1 0W-20
-20 * 2661.5 * 2609.0 * 3424.8 * 1712.7
-10 * 1197.8 * 1127.1 * 1332.9 * 730.8
0 * 599.3 * 546.6 * 595.7 * 352.8
10 * 327.6 * 291.8 * 298.3 * 188.5
20 * 192.9 * 168.8 * 164.1 * 109.5
30 * 121.0 * 104.4 * 97.6 * 68.3
40 * 80.0 * 68.4 * 62.0 * 45.1
50 * 55.4 * 47.0 * 41.6 * 31.3
60 * 39.8 * 33.7 * 29.2 * 22.6
70 * 29.7 * 25.0 * 21.4 * 17.0
80 * 22.7 * 19.1 * 16.1 * 13.1
90 * 17.8 * 15.0 * 12.5 * 10.4
100 * 14.3 * 12.0 * 10.0 * 8.4
110 * 11.7 * 9.8 * 8.1 * 6.9
120 * 9.8 * 8.2 * 6.7 * 5.8
130 * 8.2 * 6.9 * 5.7 * 5.0
140 * 7.0 * 5.9 * 4.9 * 4.3
150 * 6.1 * 5.1 * 4.2 * 3.7
Choose the oil based on what would be average starting temperature in the morning.
Patman
Staff member
quote:
Originally posted by 427Z06:
It'd be interesting to see an LS1/LS6 on M1 0w20 for the coldest 4 months in a real cold region of N. America. (Hint, Hint)
In theory I like your idea though, I bet the 0w20 would do very well in cold climates for people who do short trips.
I guess if you lived on Venus, the M1 0W-40 wouldn't be too thick.
This is why I think it is important to consider climate/season and majority trip length when choosing oil/viscosity. Even if an engine is spec'd for 10w30/40, if 95% of you trips are under 20 minutes and it's late fall/winter/early spring in Toronto, I'd give 0/5w-20 oils a really hard look.
It'd be interesting to see an LS1/LS6 on M1 0w20 for the coldest 4 months in a real cold region of N. America. (Hint, Hint)
Looking at that chart makes me think about engines that never get the oil temp to 212F .
zoomzoom , by chance do you have the same data for other oils to include Mobil 0w-30 Supersyn ?
zoomzoom , by chance do you have the same data for other oils to include Mobil 0w-30 Supersyn ?
yep I just aded few more M1 viscosities to it. It is interesting that for example 10W-30 will flow faster then 0W-40 during the start up at any temperature above 0 C???
Also M1 5W-30 will flow faster then both M1 0W-40 and GC 0W-30
What is up with that?
TEMP * M1 0W-40 * GC 0W-30 * M1 0W-30 * M1 5W-30 * M1 10W-30 * M1 0W-20 * RL 5W-20
-20 * 2661.5 * 2609.0 * 1994.8 * 2225.1 * 3424.8 * 1712.7 * 2995.8
-10 * 1197.8 * 1127.1 * 872.4 * 944.7 * 1332.9 * 730.8 * 1165.3
0 * 599.3 * 546.6 * 428.3 * 452.9 * 595.7 * 352.8 * 521.4
10 * 327.6 * 291.8 * 231.3 * 240.1 * 298.3 * 188.5 * 261.8
20 * 192.9 * 168.8 * 135.3 * 138.3 * 164.1 * 109.5 * 144.5
30 * 121.0 * 104.4 * 84.6 * 85.5 * 97.6 * 68.3 * 86.3
40 * 80.0 * 68.4 * 56.0 * 56.0 * 62.0 * 45.1 * 55.0
50 * 55.4 * 47.0 * 38.8 * 38.5 * 41.6 * 31.3 * 37.0
60 * 39.8 * 33.7 * 28.1 * 27.7 * 29.2 * 22.6 * 26.1
70 * 29.7 * 25.0 * 21.0 * 20.6 * 21.4 * 17.0 * 19.2
80 * 22.7 * 19.1 * 16.2 * 15.8 * 16.1 * 13.1 * 14.5
90 * 17.8 * 15.0 * 12.8 * 12.4 * 12.5 * 10.4 * 11.3
100 * 14.3 * 12.0 * 10.3 * 10.0 * 10.0 * 8.4 * 9.1
110 * 11.7 * 9.8 * 8.5 * 8.2 * 8.1 * 6.9 * 7.4
120 * 9.8 * 8.2 * 7.1 * 6.9 * 6.7 * 5.8 * 6.1
130 * 8.2 * 6.9 * 6.0 * 5.8 * 5.7 * 5.0 * 5.2
140 * 7.0 * 5.9 * 5.2 * 5.0 * 4.9 * 4.3 * 4.4
150 * 6.1 * 5.1 * 4.5 * 4.3 * 4.2 * 3.7 * 3.9
Also M1 5W-30 will flow faster then both M1 0W-40 and GC 0W-30
TEMP * M1 0W-40 * GC 0W-30 * M1 0W-30 * M1 5W-30 * M1 10W-30 * M1 0W-20 * RL 5W-20
-20 * 2661.5 * 2609.0 * 1994.8 * 2225.1 * 3424.8 * 1712.7 * 2995.8
-10 * 1197.8 * 1127.1 * 872.4 * 944.7 * 1332.9 * 730.8 * 1165.3
0 * 599.3 * 546.6 * 428.3 * 452.9 * 595.7 * 352.8 * 521.4
10 * 327.6 * 291.8 * 231.3 * 240.1 * 298.3 * 188.5 * 261.8
20 * 192.9 * 168.8 * 135.3 * 138.3 * 164.1 * 109.5 * 144.5
30 * 121.0 * 104.4 * 84.6 * 85.5 * 97.6 * 68.3 * 86.3
40 * 80.0 * 68.4 * 56.0 * 56.0 * 62.0 * 45.1 * 55.0
50 * 55.4 * 47.0 * 38.8 * 38.5 * 41.6 * 31.3 * 37.0
60 * 39.8 * 33.7 * 28.1 * 27.7 * 29.2 * 22.6 * 26.1
70 * 29.7 * 25.0 * 21.0 * 20.6 * 21.4 * 17.0 * 19.2
80 * 22.7 * 19.1 * 16.2 * 15.8 * 16.1 * 13.1 * 14.5
90 * 17.8 * 15.0 * 12.8 * 12.4 * 12.5 * 10.4 * 11.3
100 * 14.3 * 12.0 * 10.3 * 10.0 * 10.0 * 8.4 * 9.1
110 * 11.7 * 9.8 * 8.5 * 8.2 * 8.1 * 6.9 * 7.4
120 * 9.8 * 8.2 * 7.1 * 6.9 * 6.7 * 5.8 * 6.1
130 * 8.2 * 6.9 * 6.0 * 5.8 * 5.7 * 5.0 * 5.2
140 * 7.0 * 5.9 * 5.2 * 5.0 * 4.9 * 4.3 * 4.4
150 * 6.1 * 5.1 * 4.5 * 4.3 * 4.2 * 3.7 * 3.9
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